The Circle Of Fifths: Music Theory For Dummies

A lot of gutar players tend to think that learning any sort of music theory is a waste of time and they would rather just play what they "feel". These types of people have a good point, because playing what you feel will make you a great guitar player. The place where music theory and more specifically knowledge of the Circle of Fifths can help you as a guitarist is when you get stuck trying to write a song or stuck trying to figure a song out by ear. The Circle of Fifths can help you easily construct hundreds of Chord Progressions, Lead Lines, Harmonies, and just about anything else once you get the hang of it. Alright, so here's the Circle Of Fifths:

                         C 
                     F       G 
                        
                 Bb              D 

              Eb                    A 

                 Ab              E

                     Db      B
                         Gb

Take a second, start with C and go around the Circle of Fifths and say each note out loud or say it in your head. Now if you look at it again you will notice that since there are twelve notes, they are arranged in the exact same position that the numbers on a clock would be arranged. (Go ahead and look yourself to verify that). This is every single note on the guitar arranged into a circle. The Circle of Fifths is to music as the periodic table of elements is to chemistry. No musician should be without it. So pay attention.

The Circle of Fifths is very simple to make. Start with C, then place the Fifth of C (which is G) Clockwise of it. Then start with G, and place the Fifth of G (which is D) Clockwise of that. And so on and so on. Here is a list of Notes and their fifths starting with C.

Fifths:
C  - - - G 
G  - - - D
D  - - - A
A  - - - E
B  - - - Gb
Gb - - - Db
Db - - - Ab
Eb - - - Bb
Bb - - - F
F  - - - C
C  - - - G

The pattern that this list makes is the circle of fifths. Notice how it repeats itself and goes back to the C - G interval at the end. That's why its a circle. Anyway, you're probably wondering how this is helpful at all, but I plan to show you. If you take a chord progression, let's say C major to F major.

                         C* 
                     F*      G 
                        
                 Bb              D 

              Eb                    A 

                 Ab              E

                     Db      B
                         Gb

Now, let's say you want to transpose that to A. So you want the same exact same sounding chord progression you just want it in A instead of C. Since F is in the position that is one turn counter clockwise of C, then all you have to do is go to A, and then go one turn counter clockwise to D.

                         C 
                     F       G 
                        
                 Bb              D* 

              Eb                    A* 

                 Ab              E

                     Db      B
                         Gb

The Chord Progression going from A major to D major is the same as going from C major to F major. Try it and you will see what I mean. Although the notes/pitches are different, you get the same feeling going from any major chord to the chord exactly one turn Counter Clockwise on the Circle of Fifths.

Try it for D.

                         C 
                     F       G* 
                        
                 Bb              D* 

              Eb                    A 

                 Ab              E

                     Db      B
                         Gb
Try it for G.

                         C* 
                     F       G* 
                        
                 Bb              D 

              Eb                    A 

                 Ab              E

                     Db      B
                         Gb

Here's the kicker. The feeling you get from any one specific chord progression, like going from C major to F major can be replicated in any other key very easily using the Circle of Fifths. So if you are in a strange starting place like Db major, however you want the kind of feeling you get when you go from C major to F major. Go to the Circle of Fifths and go one turn Counter Clockwise of Db (which is Ab)

                         C 
                     F       G 
                        
                 Bb              D 

              Eb                    A 

                 Ab              E

                     Db*     B
                         Gb*

If the secret to playing is knowing how to play with feeling. Then it is certainly good to know twelve different ways to make the same sounding chord progression. So the secret to chord progressions is not exactly which chords you use, but instead its about their relationship between one another on the Circle of Fifths. Everytime you start with any of the twelve major chords and then go one turn Counter Clockwise on the Circle of Fifths you will get the same sounding Chord Progression. Now if you go Two Turns Counter Clockwise everytime you have another twelve chord progressions that give you the same feeling. Same for Three, Four, Five, Six... etc.

Going Clockwise around the circle works the same as going counter clockwise. Just remember that One Turn Clockwise is NOT the same as One Turn Counter Clockwise. Try it and you'll see.

                         C 
                     F       G 
                        
                 Bb              D 

              Eb                    A 

                 Ab              E

                     Db      B
                         Gb

The Circle of Fifths does not just give you information about types of Major Chord Progressions. It can be used to give you information for Every Type of Chord Progression. Whether you want Minor to Major, Seventh to Major, Minor to Minor, Major Ninth to Flatted Seventh. It works for Scales as well! Let's look at the pattern made by seclecting the notes of the C Major Pentatonic (C, D, E, G, A) on the Circle of Fifths.

                         C* 
                     F       G* 
                        
                 Bb              D* 

              Eb                    A* 

                 Ab              E*

                     Db      B
                         Gb

Now make that same pattern starting with G.

                         C 
                     F       G* 
                        
                 Bb              D* 

              Eb                    A* 

                 Ab              E*

                     Db      B*
                         Gb

These are the notes in the G Major Pentatonic Scale (G,A,B,D,E).

Try it for F.

                         C* 
                     F*      G* 
                        
                 Bb              D* 

              Eb                    A* 

                 Ab              E

                     Db      B
                         Gb

And that's the F Major Pentatonic Scale (F,G,A,C,D).

Try somethin a little exotic like Ab.

                         C 
                     F*      G 
                        
                 Bb*             D 

              Eb*                   A 

                 Ab*             E

                     Db      B
                         Gb

And that is how you make the Ab Major Pentatonic Scale (Ab, Bb, C, Eb, F). There are hundreds of patterns and relationships locked into the Circle of Fifths, and you're knowledge of how to use it can greatly reduce the amount of time you waste searching every fret for the notes you need. If you understand what I just said, hopefully I explained it coherenty. Then you already know more about music theory, then any person out there that uses complicated formulas and naming schemes to explain the phenomena. Some folks would have you spend hours memorizing all kinds of different information to learn Music Theory, when all you really need to have is the Twelve Note arrangement of the Circle of Fifths, and a Third Graders ability to recognize patterns. From there you can figure out and do anything you want.

If you don't know the notes on the guitar it may be helpful to write out a chart or print one out so that you can use the Circle of Fifths more effectively. If you're having troubl. Re-read this article and makes sure that you're going the right way around the circle, Clockwise or Counter Clockwiseas needed.

Comments

[Benesyed]

Im soo confused. But im sure other people will get it !
First!!!

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

gr8 dude...love it
2nd!!

[FooDog007]

pretty simple and pretty informative...thank God music theory isn't as hard as it sounds!

[The^Unforgiven]

I don't get it.

[The^Unforgiven]

Or i do get it in a away, but I don't see how it will turn out to be useful. In a word I think it's futile.

[David_hdb]

i really dont understand

[troutBoy]

i dnt understand either :S o well

[Danny7]

I think you should have this edited so that the circles look like actual circles.. as opposed to tubes.

[zeppelin420]

how could anyone NOT get it... but yeah you should make the circle look more like a circle. I'd be interested to see anymore lessons you could put out regarding easy to learn music theory.

[slash_andrew]

i cant get it..

[Itsallgood_forn]

I think it could be useful...but how would you ever "get the hang of it"...

[ragex]

It's very confusing and i sort of get it, but in time i think that it will make more sense. Great lesson though!

[nacho420]

Good lesson.

[And2001PT]

I thought it was Cycle of Fifths...
Anyway, great lesson

[dogsballs]

totally awesome lesson dude! i dont understand it though. do you mean the Bb,F,C,B etc are played as notes or chords? if u mean play the chords then ok i mite be able to play around with them and learn something. Do you mean so if im righting a song with Eb i shuld go to Ab if i would otherwise have gone to Bb.

[dogsballs]

Although the notes/pitches are different, you get the same feeling going from any major chord to the chord exactly one turn Counter Clockwise on the Circle of Fifths.
I REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND WOT YOU MEAN THERE DUDE.

[isaluteu]

good lesson ;

[aadi]

good lesson ..... .. thank god its free :P

[Paintedblue]

I have just recently learned about this in my guitar bible and was going to make a lesson to post. But seeing as you beat me to it i have to congradulate you on a job well done. It is kinda confusing but you get the hang of it.

[frenchie]

GREAT lesson and very simple to understand. That?s theory the way I like it?applicable and practical.
However could you extrapolate a bit more and tell us things such as why would one go clockwise or counterclockwise, what is the deciding factor?
Also I didn?t understand the part about going around the chart several times. How would it give you different ways of getting same sounding chords? Did you simply meant that the pattern was repeated one octave higher?
Any input would be welcome.

[BHD]

OMG that was so easy to understand! It took me ages to get through it all but I've learnt SO MUCH!!!!!! =]



-BHD

[Click You]

WOAH BHD settle down spaz.... i like my clock with numbers ;

[nukenote]

Here's the kicker. The feeling you get from any one specific chord progression, like going from C major to F major can be replicated in any other key very easily using the Circle of Fifths. So if you are in a strange starting place like Db major, however you want the kind of feeling you get when you go from C major to F major.

Go to the Circle of Fifths and go one turn Counter Clockwise of Db (which is Ab)

PEACEMKR::: i thins the Ab should be a Gb, in this section of your lesson, shouldn't it. I have not finished this lesson, but just got this far. The example you use is as you know, going for the root chord to the fourth chord. You can go backward on the circle of fifths as you describe, or go forward up the musical scale to the fourth position up from whatever root you are choosing. Maybe this will make it a little easier for some to understand. Good lesson so far.

[nukenote]

The Circle of Fifths does not just give you information about types of Major Chord Progressions. It can be used to give you information for Every Type of Chord Progression. Whether you want Minor to Major, Seventh to Major, Minor to Minor, Major Ninth to Flatted Seventh. It works for Scales as well! Let's look at the pattern made by seclecting the notes of the C Major Pentatonic (C,D,E,G,A) on the Circle of Fifths.

peacemkr::::
Darn nice trick on that pentatonic scale. I did not realize that. I am actually a Trumper player by musical education, (not professional) and have learned these basic concepts by memorizing the notes to every major and harmonic, melodic minor scale. Going up a fourth, or third, or fifth in any key requires no more to me that just thinking of the scale. The whole pentatonic thing is new to me when i began to learn bass and guitar. I like this trick on your (oops, pardon me, everyones) circle of fifths even though I can think the same thing through be just thinking through the notes of each scale. Good lesson, you obviously have a good background, and I apologize for not reading it yet. thanks, dws

[all_or_none]

erm... circle?

[nukenote]

well, trumpet is actually spelled with an t , not like i posted. Hard to get all the letters correct when you are lying down on the bed. ..nukenote

[nukenote]

i give up, "a" t

[bassist90]

dude, i don't even play guitar and i think that was awesome...i'll have to show that to our guitarist,nice job! w00t d00t

[Drock47]

w00t d00t?

[semus]

umm.. i dont get it

[joeye487]

great lesson...music theory at it's simplesy ladies and gentle men.

[slash_620]

check out zentao.com its got this lesson only better explained

You didn't explain how each key has a certain number of flats and sharps. That's the whole point behind the Circle IMO. 1 star!

[box_car_racer51]

...what...?

[dude im 11]

?your confusing!

[rearFender]

Awesome lesson; missing a few stuff but I've learned a little bit of what I need.
rF

[Iboseth]

Wow! Thanks!

[bengi]

decent article, though you didn't touch on flats or sharps in the keys, i congragulate you on youre vallient effort.

[dude im 11]

yay im the 41st to comment only im not bc u are hella confusing

[dude im 11]

lol srry

[Corwinoid]

SilentDeftone--
The number of flats/sharps in a given key, mode, or scale is a side effect of it's beginning interval and chromatic relationship to the ionian scale, and is completely incidental to it's 'position' on the circle of fifths. Denegrating this post because it fails to conform to your opinion of what matters is... rude, at the least.

This is a difficult subject to fully grasp without a good understanding of intervalic relationships, and I think I see where people are confused. It helps, when working with he circle of fifths/circle of fourths to not think about specifcic keys.

What's important is to remember that moving clockwise, each position advances by a 'fifth' until you return to the root position (I). Any 'motion' along the circle will retain a particular 'feeling' when moved to another position. The simplest of these is to move one position clockwise, at a time. You get the basic progression I-V-II-VI (For those who already understand what I'm talking about, I chose not to use the diatonic ii and vi because alterations can be applied, or chosen, as they occur).

[Corwinoid]

When viewed in the key of C, for instance, this progression would take the form C-G-Dm-Am. When viewed in the key of A, it would be A-E-Bm-F#m. What's important is that both progressions have the same feeling when heard, though they're in distinctly different keys. (Melodies so transposed will also maintain their feeling).

This holds true for any 'movement' a progression makes along the circle of fifths. For instance, while you're expirmenting you may come across a particular motion (chord change) that has a particular feeling you'd like to maintain, however it doesn't fit your progression. The circle of fifths can act as a guide for making this series of chords fit your progression, OR it can act as a guide for moving this motion into the natural key of the progression, while maintaining the feeling of the original motion.

Again, a good understanding of intervals is needed to firmly grasp the subject, if I didn't help clarify please let me know. Also, for more information I'd recommend "The Guiter Grimoire -- Progressions & Improvisation" by Adam Kadmon [Carl Fischer, 0-8258-3197-0], which gives an in-depth, theoretically complete, explaination of progressions and how they fit the circle of fifths, including alterations (why and how they apply), as it pertains to western music and jazz (IMO the most theoretically progressive (NPI) style of music), and how the inverse motions apply. I don't feel the need, unless asked, to go into that right now.

[Corwinoid]

However, to clarify for frenchie: The circle of fifths is so named because each clockwise motion advances by an interval of a 'fifth' (7 semi-tones). When moving counter-clockwise (or in reverse), a motion is it's intervalic inversion. For each step moved counter-clockwise you move backwards by an interval of a 'fourth' (5 semi-tones). This means when you are moving, chromatically, a fourth (instead of a fifth), however a fourth is the intervallic inversion of a fifth, meaning that you are moving, intervallically, 'down' a fifth, instead of up a fifth. Generally, in western music, chord progressions have certain "natural" movements, caused by acoustic resonance, chordal dissonance/resolution, blah blah blah (these are mostly caused by the harmonic training of the year at younger ages, and are quite regional... while I'm off on a tangent here, this is why most of you don't like chinese opera, and other eastern forms of music). While not displeasing to the ear, the motion to the fourth in one of the major modes is, most commonly, a dissonant effect in western music, and is not common to the ear. So, when do you decide to move clockwise or counterclockwise? Ultimately that decisions up to you, and quite honestly nothing in theory says you have to do either. Lateral motions, even, are common in progressive music, and some jazz, and make for some interesting tonality experiments as well. In the end it's about what sounds good to you. The end result, is that when you are moving clockwise you are progressing through a key from the root chord (more or less), and when you move counterclcockwise you are moving continually 'towards' the root of the key (whether or not the is ever ultimately resolved is again, a complete matter of taste).


Hope I helped,
-- C

[dwnbowden]

i kinda get it but im sure itdoesnt make a circl sombody help plz

[Guitarist9]

I don't why people always want to be the first to comment it's very weird to me. and Circle Of Fifths sounds like some gothic ritual.

[musicgoddess]

I didn't get it when I first read this. Then I went to the lessons at zentao.com as someone kindly suggested and read through their explanation, it includes the chords in a circle diagram which is most handy! Find it at http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/. It explains the fifths more clearly but doesn't explain about using the circle for transposing as well as this posting. So after reading that, come back to this explanation and all will become clear and you'll see the light and that it isn't as confusing as it first seems. Have fun.

[musicgoddess]

Sorry the above should have read 'it includes the scales in a circle diagram which is most handy' and not 'chords' as I wrote above. Also I agree with nukenote that the Ab should be a F#/Gb...blimey, I feel like I know what I'm talking about, this circle is magic!

[The Fiddler]

for everyone who thinks this is useless...you are NOT a musician. music is not justin playing cool songs, it's understanding music and the "feel" of music.

[afootincoldwate]

musicgoddess i think u meant neither...u meant 'keys' didn't u?
corwinoid, thats some brilliant explanation you gave. but i think a lesson on scale tones and related chords would help before coming here. maybe it should be included with this lesson. great article though.

[SkaterD2002]

uhhh

[ramonesfan]

i dont get it either...

[futurehendrix07]

Great article. I don't really see how anyone couldn't get it..But for those of you who don't: Take a piece of paper and draw the fifths of C in your own diagram (you can get it more circular since Peacemkr's didn't come out to look like a circle). That helped me a lot.

[VR05]

thats really easy and im glad that u explained that ans cleared it all up for me

[RAplayingmantis]

sicky sicky that was cool it took alittle while for me to get it being a beginner and all but its all making sence shouldnt i be paying for this shit!!!

thanks guy

[levi's]

type "circle of fifths" into google picture search, print it out and reread the lesson. it's much easier that way

[MightyMilly]

thanks mr peacemkr!

[john_t_09]

duhhh.. its a rere article its common since

[spazzymagee]

dude this is an exceptional lesson, you've improved my Music Theory knowledge knowledge 10 fold, with this lesson it enables you to develop your own melodies and riffs in various keys. Thanks

[stapler]

I got some of it. If I read it more I will.

[gary19862k6]

its no confusing at all... only thing im confused about is how all you people dont understand it, and to all u ppl who think they shuld look more like circles, WHO CARES? its still set in a way so u can see wot order they go in.

[benwahballs]

someone already mentioned this but... in the lesson it said

Go to the Circle of Fifths and go one turn Counter Clockwise of Db (which is Ab)

its not Ab its Gb. thats when i gave up on trying to understand this one

[recklessftw]

I think that was a great article. I also like the trick with the pentatonic notes, I didn't know that one.
Someone also asked how you know what sharps/flats are in the scales and I'd like to put in what really helped me.
Father Charles Goes Down And End Battle. you take the first letter of each word and that's the order of sharps you add to your scale... so if you look on the circle of 5ths at G (5th above C), that G scale will have 1 sharp being F(Father). Same with D, it's two places from C on the circle so it's got two sharps; F(father), C(Charles). Keep going until you reach the 6 o'clock position. Then you get into flats... you start from the top of the circle (C) and go backwards with the saying: Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father. So the first 5th BELOW C(counter clockwise from the top) is F. One place from the top of the circle in a counter clockwise position means one flat, B(Battle). I think you can figure out the rest... that's just something that really helps me out.

[Panman]

I think this website is great. The circle of fifths is a great way to understand music theory. But learning to play music on an instrument that is solid circle of fifths is just awesome,
The tenor steelpan invented in Trinidad in the late 1930s and brought to perfection later on is the only musical instrument that takes the design of the circle of fourths and fifths. Play Pan!!!!

Panman

[Gosman]

Im so ****ing confused..

[Muzz_Punk]

you contridicted yourself in the beginning

[ouchies]

This helped me a lot !

It's a lot easier to understand then other articles on the circle of fifths.

[dixieguitarist]

ummm... how about explaining what fifths are first. i think that would be a good starting place. but it would be a good lesson though!

[oily_stage]

good lesson, but i noticed these patterns through playing experience, wish i checked them out before, woulda explained alot early on

[Sabra]

Wow, this was really neat! I took music theory years ago and had to memorize the circle of fifths, yet never understood what to do with it! The written part of theory never really mand much sense (I could analyze Bach and Mozart, but why?) and I think that is partly due to my first instrument being violin (and then voice) as opposed to piano or guitar where one grasps chords and such. I still rely on doing most things by ear even now and this will help me tremendously! What a revelation

[Sabra]

Oops, I meant to say written theory never "made" much sense.

[j.tilley]

i guess i need a lesson called " circle of fifths for extra-dense dummies"

[dixieguitarist]

Yes would someone please write this in english?

[Duce1973]

I've read many books and was always confused with one part or another. This was complete and easy to understand, I now have all the pieces together.
Thank you

[fingersofflame]

this is great...you really explain what the hell you are talking about in a clear and understandable fashion...good job man!

[deadhead0661]

good lesson. its true that some things weren't covered but its cool, im starting to get it more now thanks. Oh yeah, it looks like Corwinoid has got his theory down pretty solid.

[miguelito2729]

ya..... I din't get that but thanks for the lesson ( wich I'm sure I'll understand someday ) anyways.

[Ramones Nutter]

yeah that was pretty good - i sort of get it after half an hour. finally, i can make some sense of how a scale is made up. cheers

[Sadam]

Very good. Its very clear and understanding as long as you know very basic theory.Thanks for the info.

[Metatron]

I have no ****ing idea what the hell this is talking about. I am sooo confused.

[miguelito2729]

Yeeeeesssss!!!!! Holy sh*t!!!!! After re-reading this lesson a 2nd I got it!!! Thank you sooooo much. Damn it feels good.

[guitarchickof06]

i dont get it either, but im always confused

[Rory's_strat]

....85th comment....

I sorta get it and it helps alot once you do realise it ...Im only 12, lol...

[simonzwaan]

Guitarist9 wrote:

I don't why people always want to be the first to comment it's very weird to me. and Circle Of Fifths sounds like some gothic ritual.

lol it does
i fisrt thought it said circle of filth

[ClaudiosBoy]

that actually helped me

[LosLobos]

I can completely see why this was confusing. having read this article a couple months ago, and reading it again now makes me see it in a diffrent light. Im taking a music theory class, and we have not even used the circle in the ways mentioned. were using it to figure out the amount of flats and sharps in a given scale.

so the circle is used so many diffrent ways that I dont see how it could be fully explained in a short internet article.

[rebel_rocker89]

XD some people just don't get it, huh? Well, if I sat down and seriously read this when I was sober, then it would be no problem. Sounds like a good lesson though

[sTx]

Kind of hard to understand...
Good job though.

[davidson22]

i dont get it at all wtf, do u have to know lots about notes,chord progression, and music theory in general to be able to understand this or am i just an idiot?

[Ronan514]

Beside a few typos, this was really good and easy to understand...im glad somebody elaborated on the circle of fifths because other music theory lessons on ug didnt really explain it at all

[cheese141]

this is great stuff. pretty easy to understand if you have a general idea about guitar. it took me some studying to figure it out exactly, but now that i do, it helps a lot. thanks.

[nightmare10999]

Thank god someone is able to explain this theory crap in a way that is simple to understand.

[Chipman]

circle of fifths sounds like a drinking game to me

i am starting to understand the circle a bit more each time i read about it so i thought it was useful. if all of the information is not correct about the circle, atleast the way you USE it makes sense.

[thelastmccabe]

This is the first time I've read something that explains WHY i should CARE about the circle of fifths. Thank you!!!!!11

[godofthesunn]

I dont know if anyone mentioned this but a there was a slight error when you first gave the example of fifths

Ex E....B

You forgot too put that one in... And it threw me off alittle when I was trying to go through the lesson . Other than that you did a decent job...

[Jacesdrm]

after reading all of the comments, i've gotten circles around my eyes! must be the fifth I consumed!

[Texas90]

wow that is alot better way to learn some theory!

[Maggot66]

So confused..

[Night]

In your first example, of C>G
how would that look on tab? a C would appear on the 8th fret of the low E string correct? and thenwhat does it mean to make it to G? down to the 3rd fret?? is that the purpose?

i honeslty really dont get the use of it.. im so n00bish.. lol

[Night]

mm wait if you were to make a C note on the low E string.. that would make it on the 8th fret correct? then if you place a fifth above it (utilizing this Circle of Fifths) you would place one of your other fingers on the a string making a G note correct, or 10th fret , correct? giving you a powerchord?

A|--10-|
E|---8-|

is this right??

is this what it means to place a fifth on a note too?

[dudetheman]

I completely get it! Finally!!!

Thank you soo much dude you're the best!!!

[blinkkink182]

the relationship between the chords ahhhhh. i think i just understood music

[souap]

I dont really think I understand this...

[conrad whiley]

why do a person need the circle of fifths? where does it come from and what makes it so important to know?

[k-dog_15]

hey peacemkr, did you also know about the inner circle of fifths?

the inner circle of fifths tells what a key's relative minor is. you take a key and look 3 keys clockwise. this key is the relative minor.

your circle of fifths now looks like this.

C
F G

Bb D

Eb A

Ab E

Db B
Gb

[k-dog_15]

oops..like this

C
F G

Bb D

Eb A

Ab E

Db B
Gb

[k-dog_15]

peacemkr did you know about the inner circle of fifths? you can find a key's minor by looking 3 keys clockwise on the circle of fifths. that is a key's relative minor.

your circle of fifths know looks like this.

C
F Am G
Dm Em
Bb D
Gm Bm


Eb Cm Gbm A

Ab Fm Dbm E


Bm Abm
Db Ebm B
Gb

[SolGold]

Great article. I actually caught the Db to Ab error. I thought, "Huh? That doesn't make any sense, shouldn't it be Gb ???" So reading the posts gave me a LOT of reassurance. Very useful, from one who has snubbed theory for too long... that's how I ended up here today, having a middle aged change of perspective about 'shaping' music. Keep on trucking.

[maxedout]

Fifth of WHAT??? Took another website to tell me that each "fifth" is 7 frets up but neither one said that it's referring to a "fifth" of the STRING LENGTH. Guess I need that website for extra dense dummies too...

[Thulsa75]

maxedout wrote:

Fifth of WHAT??? Took another website to tell me that each "fifth" is 7 frets up but neither one said that it's referring to a "fifth" of the STRING LENGTH. Guess I need that website for extra dense dummies too...

[Thulsa75]

Thulsa75 wrote:

maxedout wrote:

Fifth of WHAT??? Took another website to tell me that each "fifth" is 7 frets up but neither one said that it's referring to a "fifth" of the STRING LENGTH. Guess I need that website for extra dense dummies too...

You may have read that in one of the recent mags out...just look at these as a "specific amount of space between notes" when using the circle..
You're more or less just following the outline that the notes make and putting it on a new root note. And that is honestly it. Example: A-C-E A(root)-C(3rd spot behind the root)-E(next spot after the root)
***take this basic diagram and apply it to a new key,letter,root WHATEVER makes it work in your head***
Picking a random key from the circle, lets use "Gb"
Applying the map that we had for A-C-E, to "Gb" (our new root/key) we get Gb-A-Db. The MAIN THING here is not that your using another arpeggio or scale or anything else like that..ITS ABOUT TRANSPOSING IT.. in other words...if you wanted it to SOUND the same but just at a higher or lower pitch. There are MANY derivatives from this circle, this is just one, BUT if you can retain this basic idea you have a great start.....The circle is made so that you can MANIPULATE changing of keys and roots or even just making a progression sound good.....not be baffled by them.

[Ttsg]

ooo... i finally got what you mean after reading 3 times! damn i'm dumb.. anyway, good lesson man!

[rgseifried]

Over my head... need to back up a few lessons and come back later...

[metal-fury]

Corwinoid wrote:

.....The circle of fifths is so named because each clockwise motion advances by an interval of a 'fifth' (7 semi-tones). -- C

Thanks for that, I was wondering what the 'fifth' was. - I thought it was just five places up the alphabet C D E F G but that didn't sound much like musical theory to me!

Can anyone say why a fifth is 7 semitones?

Very interesting article, been playing for many years and have just started on theory.

[RedMoonMan]

Great job man, i needed a little refresher and this was the perfect thing..if i ever make it famous half the credit goes to you.

[Legion182]

i ****ing love you, bear my children. they will be worth alot one day.. thanks to you

[Ultimate_Gio92]

i get it now.. but its completely useless to me

[Led_Zeppelin_27]

really great lesson, i just hate how much memorization goes into music theory, and for the people who don't understand this, just re-read it, it isn't to difficult to understand

[delhan]

Okay I don't understand circle of fifths... could someone like send me a link to a visual lesson of the circle of fifths because I kinda get it but I still don't quite understand cuz I get confused on this stuff... it may not be hard to understand for you others who have had lessons from teachers or followed many lessons but I'm not really familiar with this stuff... I learned everything I know on my own and I wanted to enhance my knowledge by reading some lessons... I still don't get this stuff... so help me... PLEEAASSSEEE....

[Long Pete]

Finally ! now i understand the circle of fifths. Amazing job man. thanks

[gatkins2004]

Great stuff, just one mistake though where you say " Go to the Circle of Fifths and go one turn Counter Clockwise of Db (which is Ab)"
Cheers,
Gary

[Tzao]

If you do not understand the circle of fifths, stare at it. If you still don't understand, then go do something more useful with your life. The world has enough awful musicians as is.

[itsxsteves]

great job
perfect
10 stars XD

[hero118]

i'm so ****ed with my music GCSE! i need to compose a 32 bar intrumental peice (no lyrics) in binary form (AB, two sections) and there needs to be a key change to part the sections! i pla the piano but im really stuck and need some help! can anyone help me? if you think you can, i mean im open to any suggestions just email me at [e-mail] please help me!

[speedthrasher]

HEY THS IS GOOD..... I GET IT..... GOOD JOB..... THIS IS REALLY HELPING ME..... THANKS.....

[moptopguitar]

wait.....so ervry song is written using the circle of fifths?

[dchenex]

awesome lesson that is as easy as music theory gets.
one thing to add if your in the key of lets say C then to find the major/minor/diminished chords of that key you look at the table of fifths and look at the right and left of it you find the 2 major chords other than C. so if it is in the key of C then the 2 other major chords in that key is F and G and then to find the minor chords in that key you look to the right of the G in this case. the 3 chords right next to it are D A and E so they are minor in that key. and to find the diminished chord look one more to the right which would be B. so it would look like this C Dm Em F G Am Bdim

[dchenex]

the comment i posted explained that too fast i think so sorry. and btw im just 13 and i started probably last summer

[Angel Of Sin]

I think next time you should include some examples in TAB that a person could play, maybe that may be the reason why everyone is so confused..

[ggiles]

Oh boy ... from the following site.....

http://www.howmusicreallyworks.com/Pages_Chapte r_6/6_7.html

For generations, students, songwriters, and even music teachers, unaware of the harmonic scale and how it works, have used the Circle of Fifths as a crude harmony- organizing tool.

Big mistake.

If you treat the key names in the Circle of Fifths as chord names and proceed around the Circle of Fifths counterclockwise, you get descending fifth progressions. (Such progressions even have a name: Circle-of-Fifth progressions.)

This is counter-intuitive, because the “natural” direction of the hands of a clock is obviously “clockwise” (the 12 positions of the Circle of Fifths are arranged to resemble a clock face). But apart from that, the Circle of Fifths has several major disadvantages as a harmonic scale stand-in:

1. No key-specific organizing framework. As you progress around the Circle of Fifths, you exit the key after the second chord! And you don’t return unless you go all the way round the circle. (More on this in a moment.)

2. No connection between the chords of a major key and the chords of its relative minor. Not only is the bridging diminished chord missing, but the 12 minor chords are visually organized in their own separate circle. Again, if you start a chord progression in any given minor key, you exit the key after two chords and don’t return until you go all the way round the circle.

3. No identification of dominant sevenths or subdominant chords for any given key.

4. No way to identify third and second progressions.

5. No way to identify pivot chords for purposes of modulation.

The Circle of Fifths has its uses, but not for showing pathways to meaningful, coherent chord progressions and harmonic movement.

Many musicians mistakenly think that the Circle of Fifths actually has something to do with chord progressions. Even authors of books on songwriting and music theory make this mistake, propagating rubbish and confusing their readers to no end.

To be clear: the Circle of Fifths shows key signatures and key relations—but not chord relations.

Here's an example of what happens when you treat the elements around the clock face of the Circle of Fifths as chords instead of keys. Presumably, you would want to progress around the Circle of Fifths as though it's a big circular chord progression. To simplify matters, consider the outer circle only, the elements that would be the major “chords” if the Circle of Fifths had anything to do with chords

[ggiles]

In other words ... go to the site I posted in the above comment and learn to use the Harmonic scale to figure understand chord progressions.

[Aquaegrannus]

I play guitar and like others I've learned up to now mostly by memorization. I recently decided to memorize the fret board and the position of the fifths was my cue to knowing where the notes were. On a completely unrelated effort, I was forming an outline of a topic that generated the geometry of three sided pyramids with points building on lower points to organize the complexity of the argument. When the "pyramids" were stacked the interior defined the relationship of the parts. I cross referenced geometry to see if I could draw a conclusion and the relationship between the points of the shape inside, (an octahedron...hmmm 8notes in a scale) anyway...mathematically the relationship of the linear
Geometric points is a pure circle of fifths when given any frequency,(tone), describing perfect harmonic frequency so I picked up my guitar and was astonished at the implication musically as relating the chords and scales I'd learned by rote memorization. So I decided to do a search on this and came to this site...music, geometry, and logic work on the same principles. The structure I was using to solidify an argument, I discovered, is called a FRACTAL pyramid and is used for complex computer graphics programming, (look it up). It illustrates how things are related in an identical mathematical relationship on any scale, (you think the use of the word "scale" for music is accidental? Not!) Perhaps music IS the key to EVERYTHING as many a poet has said. I thought the clock concept really made it clear as to how it is used in music. Thanks!

[Aquaegrannus]

Re: ggiles' post...I'm just getting started on music theory so I will definitely look into ALL resources. I must say that the circle of fifths is a really good way to get to know the fretboard notes and the composition of the major chords...and quickly.

[Ardolino_Cool]

crap crap crap...got nothing to do with musical theory that well except anyone who knows what a 5th means can figure that out. there shudnt be rules like this with chord progresions. i mean i know someone who made a chord progression out of B major and B Minor chords...theory like this limits creativity.just **** circle of 5ths u play chords together that sound good to you...and what you wanna play.its what being a guitarist is about...unless however your an actual musician not a guitarist.

[danben1]

Ardolino_Cool, Just because you don't understand it does not mean your not using everytime you play. When chords sound correct together its because you are using this theory, even if you do not realize it.

[bowhunter_dude]

I've learned this stuff before but the way you explain it is crysal clear, much easier to learn. Thanks

[grengsdavid]

oh yeah i like e like it im gonna try to memorize it gotta get the grenery outt the scenery tho

[Darkdevil725]

I dont understand it but I am sure I will after a few readthroughs.

[minichibi]

I get it perfectly Thanks!

[thedonutman]

I've just read through the whole lesson, and I *think* I understand. The circle of fifths is basically just an tool to assist transposition of chord progressions, scales, arpeggios etc. ?

[ChemicalFire]

This is a much better explanation of the Co5 than on the massive guide that's on this site. I understood this perfectly.

[mnic001]

Hey, if you go around the circle of fifths by looking at every other note, it's the whole tone scale. What does that mean?

[mnic001]

just a side-effect of going up by a fifth? Yeah I guess so. But is that fact useful?