Using Musical Intervals To Greatly Improve Tuning And Intonation

This method of tuning requires a basic grasp of music theory and a fairly well developed ear. Absolute beginners may need a little more experience before attempting to tune guitars using this method.

Most of us are familiar with the 5th fret (4th fret in the case of the G string) method for tuning a guitar by ear. This technique uses unisons (two notes of exactly the same pitch or frequency) to tune a guitar. This method is okay if you want to get two neighbouring strings in tune with each other but it may not be particularly accurate for getting the 1st string in tune with the 5th string or the 4th string in tune with the 2nd string, and so on.

Using fourths, fifths and octaves, it is possible to achieve a high degree of accuracy for any string in relation to any other.

Terminology

Beat rate:

When tuning one string to another, you hear a "wah wah wah" sound. This slows as you approach the point where the two frequencies coincide (vibrate at exactly the same frequency). The rapidity of the “wah wah wah” is known as the Beat Rate.

Smooth:

When the two frequencies coincide the "wah wah" sound stops. This is known as being Smooth. Unisons and octaves are Smooth.

Narrow and Wide:

Fifths are Narrow. Fourths are Wide.

The “wah wah” sound can not only be heard when tuning a unison, but can also be heard when tuning intervals, e.g. thirds, fourths, fifths and octaves. For instance, if you were to tune the 6th string (E) to the 5th string (A), you will have tuned a fourth.

Assuming that your 5th string (A) is up to pitch (110Hz) and your 6th string (E) is below pitch. As you raise the pitch of the E, the Beat Rate will begin to slow (provided the E string was somewhere near pitch to begin with). You should stop raising the pitch of the E string just before it becomes Smooth. This will mean that the interval is Wide. If you were to continue raising the pitch past the Smooth point, the Beat Rate would begin to speed up again and the interval would become Narrow. Fourths are tuned slightly Wide.

Imagine the A note as a point in space and the E note as another point some distance beneath the A. As you raise the pitch of the E it gets closer and closer to the A. Now imagine an interval of a fourth as being the perfect distance between these two points. If the E and the A were at this perfect distance and you raised the E, the distance between them would become narrower. If you lowered the E, the distance would become wider.

Musical intervals are thought of as distances in pitch.

Coincidental Harmonics

Why is it possible to tune two different notes to each other, e.g. E and A?

This is possible because of coincidental harmonics. When you pluck an open string on a guitar, not only do you get the note produced by the open string as it vibrates along it's whole length, but also a series of upper partials. These are known as the Harmonic Series.

You don’t hear these upper partials because the open string, vibrating along it's entire length, displaces much more air than the upper partials and therefore is much louder. The volume of the open string drowns out the quieter upper partials.

It is possible to tune an E to an A because both notes have a coincidental harmonic in their series of upper partials. That is to say, they both have an upper partial that vibrates at exactly the same frequency. If you rest your finger on the A string over the 12th fret and pluck the string, you get a harmonic that is an octave above the A produced by the open string. This harmonic is known as the first upper partial or the second harmonic (the first harmonic being the A produced by the open A string, also known as the fundamental). By resting your finger on the string at the 12th fret, you are stopping the whole of the string from vibrating and allowing the string to vibrate either side of your finger. This silences the fundamental and allows the first upper partial (second harmonic) to be heard. If you repeat this procedure at the 7th fret you will silence the first and second harmonics and hear the third harmonic. This harmonic sounds an E, which is an octave and a fifth above the fundamental A. By resting your finger above the 5th fret of the E string you hear the fourth harmonic of the E string, which is an E at exactly the same pitch as the one on the 7th fret of the A string. It is the beat rate between these coincidental harmonics that can be heard when tuning an E to A fourth.

You do not need to pick out these harmonics to hear the beat rate. The beat rate can be heard just by playing the two open strings together. The upper partials themselves may be drowned out by the volume of the fundamentals but the beat rate between the two coincidental harmonics can be heard.

Using Intervals To Tune A Guitar

In standard tuning (E, A, D, G, B, e) you’ll notice that four of the neighbouring pairs of strings are made up of fourths: E and A, A and D, D and G and B and e. The 2nd and 3rd strings (G and B) are made up of a major third.

Firstly, set your A string using an A pitch fork (440Hz). The pitch created by the 440 fork corresponds to the 4th harmonic of the A string (above the 5th fret). Once again, you don't need to pick out the harmonic to hear the beat rate but you can if you want to hear it really clearly. NEVER bang a pitch fork on anything hard like a table. Strike it against some firm but with a bit of give in it; like the sole of a shoe or your knee if you’re not too boney.

Now play the E and A together and raise the E to just short of smooth. Check the accuracy of this by fingering the A string at the 2nd fret (B) and play the E and B together. Both the E A fourth and the E B fifth should be just off smooth. If you want to be really accurate, the fifth should be slightly smoother than the fourth, but there’s not a lot in it. If the E A fourth is beating too rapidly then you need to raise the E a little more. If the E B fifth is beating too rapidly then you have raised the E too much and need to flatten it.

Now tune the D to the A as a fourth. Bear in mind that whilst tuning the E to the A, the E was lower in pitch than the A and so you needed to stop short of smooth in order to make the fourth slightly wide. Because the D is higher than the A, you will need to go slightly past the smooth point to make the fourth wide. It’s best in this case to tune it smooth and then check the the fifth by fingering the 2nd fret of the D string to get an A E fifth. If it is beating too much raise the D a little more and check both intervals again. Repeat the procedure used for tuning the A D fourth to tune the D G fourth.

Now we come to the G B major third. Major thirds have a very rapid beat rate compared to fourths and fifths, which are almost smooth. This beat rate increases as you get higher in pitch. For example, the middle C (3rd string 5th fret) and the E (2nd string 5th fret) is a major third. This beats 10.38 times a second, almost a blur.

I trained as a piano tuner in my early twenties and it was the part of the course that involved tuning this interval that separated the people who were going to complete the course from those who were not.

If you have trouble hearing the beat rate between the G and B; tune the B string by fretting the G string at the 4th fret and tune the unison. Now pick out the harmonic that is just before the 4th fret of the G string and the one that is at the 5th fret of the B string. These are the coincidental harmonics for the G B third. You should now be able to clearly hear the rapid beat rate. To get a fourth and fifth for the G and B string: Finger the B string at the first fret and play it together with the open G for a fourth (G C) and the 4th fret for a fifth (G D). Then you can apply the method for tuning the fourths and fifths that was described above.

Once the B string is done you can use the same method to tune the final fourth B e.

You can also use octaves as a further way of checking for inaccuracies. Finger the D string at the 2nd fret and play it together with the open 6th E string as an octave. Remember, octaves should be smooth. Finger the G string at the 2nd fret and play it together with the open A string as an octave. Finger the B string at the 3rd fret and play it together with the open D string as an octave. Finger the 1st e string at the 3rd fret and play it together with the open G string as an octave. In fact, anywhere on the fret board where you can play an octave or a double octave along with an open string, you should do so; e.g. open G with the G at the 8th fret of the 2nd string or open D with the D at the 7th fret of the 3rd string.

You can also apply this to fourths and fifths, or extensions of fourths and fifths i.e 11ths and 12ths or even 18ths and 19ths (these should sound just as sweet as the fourths and fifths). For instance, the open A string together with the open 1st e string as a 12th or the open D string together with the A at the 5th fret of the 1st string as a 12th. It’s best to stick to double octaves, 12ths and 19ths when checking further up the fret board as these are the clearest to hear. You can of course check the 5th and 4th fret unisons too.

If all your unisons and octaves are smooth and your fourths, fifths, 11ths and 12ths aren’t beating too wildly, then you can be sure that your chords will sound sweet wherever you play them on the fret board.

You could apply this method of tuning to achieve greater accuracy when setting the intonation on an electric guitar. I’m not going to go into the method for adjusting intonation as I’m sure someone else has already done so, but you could use double octaves, 12ths and 19ths to check the accuracy of your guitar’s intonation.

Strings

Strings can affect tuning and intonation. I find that about one out of every four or five packs of strings has a faulty one in there. I think it has something to do with the winding.

Finally, if you find your guitar drifts out of tune often, (if you train your ears to hear interval beat rates you'll know about it alright) then it may be because you haven't set the string after a re-stringing.

String Setting

After stringing your guitar and tuning it up to pitch. Be sure to set the strings by pulling them away from the fret board. Rounabout where the fret board meets the sound hole or pick up, take hold of the string with your first two fingers and with your thumb pressing against the front of your guitar, pull it away from the guitar. You'll find the pitch has dropped a lot because you are taking out the excess slack. retune and repeat several times until it no longer drops. You should feel the string becoming much more tense as you reapeat this proceedure. Be fairly gentle with the 1st ans 2nd strings. You should now find that your guitar stays in tune for much longer. If you don't know how to string a guitar the way they do in a guitar workshop then check around the internet or read a guitar maintainece handbook. Basically, it involves wrapping the string back under itself so that as you tighten it up it traps itself.

POSTED: 04/21/2007 - 09:41 am

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Comments

[Wasp]

Good article, should be useful

[SethMegadefan]

Wow, great stuff. A bit difficult to fully wrap my head around (although I'm no sound genius or anything), but I still learned quite a few things I didn't know (or even think of) before. Thanks a bunch for writing this; it's really very awesome stuff.

[Nirvana-Man]

this is confusing!!

[chris flatley]

I'm sorry if you found this confusing. I tried to make it as clear as possible but it was harder putting this stuff into words than it was learning to tune pianos, and that was not picnic let me tell ya. BTW I made a mistake, I said finger the B string at the 4th fret for a G D fifth, I meant the 3rd fret of course lol a G D# augmented fifth isn't advisable for tuning purposes.

[chris flatley]

another thing, you have no idea how difficult it is to get work as a piano tuner with the surname Flatley..doh!

[Glen'sHeroicAct]

big words and confusing musical terms make Morbo MAD!!!

[chris flatley]

I'm not trying to be a billy clever bollocks here, I thought people would find this useful that's all. is it okay if I triple post

[SethMegadefan]

Glen'sHeroicAct wrote:

dont double post!

You've just won the most ironic post ever award. Congratulations.
It is confusing, I'll admit, but I have to say that if I'd known this stuff when I was first starting guitar I would've found it really useful. It's really a very well-written article, and I guess I'm just lucky that I understood most of it. I guess it's just not the article for everyone.

[andrewb610]

tuning to the fifth and seventh harmonics is more accurate. if you get the 5th harmonic on the lower pitched string and the 7th harmonic on the higher pitched string you tune the higher string until there is the least amount of fluctuation between the strings

[andrewb610]

double posting!!!!!

[andrewb610]

ahhhhh!!!!! TRIPLE POSTING NO!!!!!

[chris flatley]

tuning the harmonic at the 5th fret of the E string perfectly smooth with the harmonic at the 7th fret of the A string isn't accuate I'm afraid. I used to think so too but know I have a diploma that says it ain't. Once again I really don't mean to sound like a smart arse. When I referred to fourths and fifths I was talking about intervals and not fret numbers

[chris flatley]

also, the harmonic at the 5th fret is not the 5th harmonic it's the 4th harmonic and the one at the 7th fret isn't the 7th harmonic it's th 3rd. Trust me on this one.

[DaveGilmour1189]

i think what your discussing is "beats." it a phenomina caused when two noises are played only slightly out of tune. I think you threw everyone off at the "wah wah" refernce. Its more of a phase type thing. THe various frequencies interact with each other causing regions of higher amplitude(loudness) to both waves. You get this pulsing sound of the sounds going in and out of phase. But in order to do this you need the sounds almost identical, only 5 or 6 cents off.

[chris flatley]

This is a tecnique I started using after I learned to tune pianos. I found that the methods I was using before weren't really accurate. The technique itself is sound, it appears that I didn't explain it very well. But I think most people would understand whay I meant by the wah wah sound slowing down and speeding up. I did refer to beating, but I didn't want to get too bogged down in the mechanics of sound because I think it would have been even more confusing.

[jazkel24]

oh yeah. it was confusing. but helpful. Now i just need to find enough time to go back through the article and put it into tuning my guitar. thanks a lot.

Checked.

[PLOP]

Very helpful, detailed and generally excellent albeit slightly complex and confusing.

[RockerPseudonym]

This is the kind of thing I need to learn for music. Physical techniques are "easy" to learn, just takes time. Plus...doesn't really matter how good you are if your Low E is tuned to Fb and your high E is tuned to C#

...Actually...I'm gonna go try that out and get back to you...

[chris flatley]

well, I'd say that theoretical stuff is easy and playing is the hard bit myself. Fb is E btw, but you knew that right.

[singurel]

it`s been a long time since my guitar sounded this good....:P man, your lesson`s great, after i tuned my low 5 a 5th down from A i got the hang of it....this really did greatly improve my tuning...(saw people tune without fretting, but didn`t try it before...also, i usually used 8th to check my tunig)
this helped a lot, thank you

[singurel]

my low E a 5th down from A. sry for the double-post

[jk919]

Actually Chris... Fb IS lower than an E.... just like Bb is lower than A#....technically... but great article anyway...

[niguitars.com]

yah or buy a tu2 and just rock

[chris flatley]

you got me there jk that's the first time I've heard that. if you play a Bb or an A# on a piano you get the same frequency, the piano doesn't know what key your playing in I would like to know what you mean though, I'm intrigued by anything to do with music theory.

[chris flatley]

I've just had a look at the TU2, and if you have to rely on that bit of tat to tell you whether or not you're in tune then I'll be amazed if you can rock at all. I doubt that Darrell Abbot ever had to whip out a chromatic tuner mid-gig and start beeping. Chromatic tuners are the zimmer frame of the music world.. I'm gonna have to stop rising to the bait I know.

[maggot555]

nice article.
definitly gives good affirmation to those who have already learned and teaches something to people who are new.

and to clear up jk and your discussion
Bb and A# are the same note sonically which in otherwords are called
"enharmonic" of each other. they really are the same note though and are given different names only to aid the writer or reader of the music in certain situations.
As for Fb i dont think ive seen a notation like that before and the enharmonic of "Fb" would be "E#" and i havnt seen that before either.
I'm not certain but i beleive that is because there isnt a black key between E and F on a piano and its just a halfstep between them. someone correct me if im wrong.

The twelve notes possible on any instrument are as follows (note that the slashes represent enharmonic notes):

a, a#/Bb , b , c , C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E , F, F#/Gb,G, G#/Ab

if i made mistakes or anything, please someone correct me.

[mrFood]

hippyguitardude wrote:

i didn't read this but wanted the first comment... foo's

Congratulations, you're an *******. :]

[jk919]

alright maggot you're mostly correct.... on a piano Bb and A# are considered the same note because they are so similar that creating to keys for the couple of hz would be dumb and make it much more difficult to learn the piano..... but in reality there is an actual difference in the sound wave between the two that can really only be achieved on an instument that can easily and greatly bend sound aka a stringed instrument... (note a guitar w/frets cannot achieve this unless you pull the string). But not many people would know this unless they were looking for it. (And yes, it is possible to hear the difference)
Now as for the Fb point... In classical music you do occasionally run into Fb or even double flats (Ebb) but for the most part they are related to playing in very strange and sometimes theoretical keys) But in response to the specific Fb scenario Fb does equal E not E# because if you think about it G does not equal E (which would be the case if you took both Fb and E and dropped them a half-step). And not that it really matters but the only time you would see Fb is if you were playing a song in Cb-M(ab-m) or a theoretical key.

I hope this makes sense... let me know.

[minichibi]

Thanks... difficult to understand but im gonna look into it more and come back.

[chris flatley]

thanks jk, I understand the need for notes like Cb and Fb when writing music but it was the pitch thing I was curious about. Do you mean that if you were to go through the circle of fifths (or fourths) F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb past the Gb/F# point, and you were to calculate the frequencies mathematically, then there would be a slight difference between Fb and E, than if you went up the circle of fifths G, D, A, E.

[chris flatley]

also, I was probably a bit hard on the guy who mentioned electronic tuners, they are the pet hate of the piano tuner but they're pretty useful for people just starting out. There's nothing more disheartening than trying to learn on an out of tune guitar, but if you're using one you should always be trying to develope your ear so you can ultimately bin the gadget.

[jk919]

Yes.... Theoretically if i played lets say a DM scale i'll play D-E-F#-G-A-B-C#-D, but when i play a AbM i'll play Ab-Bb-C-Db-Eb-F-G-Ab. Obviously... The theory, and what i was trying to explain... is that, even though C# and Db are "enharmonically the same" if i was playing it correctly.. my C# would play a few degrees higher than my Db..
It's kinda hard to get, i understand this.... but think about it like this.... If i'm playing that same DM scale mentally, (and without prior know ledge of a piano!) i almost want C# to be higher than Db and the same goes if i'm playing the AbM scale I want the Db to be lower so that it flows and correlates with the sound.... i'm gonna look for my book or try and find something online to help you out....

Til then, let me know if this helped at all.

[jk919]

I found it this should help....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enharmonic.....

Read the section on "Tuning Enharmonics" then get back to me with thoughts... really interesting stuff.

[maggot555]

oh i didnt know that jk.
thanks for the new info.
you learn something new everyday.

[rik231]

beats! you mean the strings are oscillating at the same frequency.....also why do you need to tune this way other than to improve your ear (of which there are many better ways to do it).

[chris flatley]

you don't need to tune this way, this is the way I prefer to tune my guitar because the chords you play are based on the harmonic series so it doesn't hurt to understand a bit about the unavoidable discrepency that is in present in teh harmonic series (the fact that thirds, fourths and fifths etc. cannot be tuned perfectly mooth without it throwing off more important harmonies such as octaves). Equal temperament tuning has been developed over hundreds of years, and the imperfections in string harmony was discovered thousands of years ago by people like Pythagoras. But it sounds like you have a better system, and that's fine, write about it!

[Mattson]

wow, i really didnt find it too confusing. the theory behind it is pretty basic. i found it helpful, good job. just one question though: you said octaves should be smooth but major 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths, should have a beat rate, right? then do anyone know why, in general, we use major chords with a root, 3rd, 5th and octave? shouldnt it sound way out of tune with all the different beat rates going on at once, or at least a little muddy?

[chris flatley]

just read that page jk, complicated stuff : I did have to learn about meantone as part of my course, but no-one has ever asked me to tune a harpsichord in meantone thank ****, if it happened now I wouldn't know where to start! Beginning to realise how much stuff I've forgotten.

[chris flatley]

magg, if you played a major triad on your guitar to someone pre baroque period it would sound to them exactly as you described, pretty bad. Priority is given to octaves because they appear in the harmonic series first, and therefore, vibrate along a larger portion of the string) so they are much more prminent. Fifths are the next strongest harmony, then fourths (which is a fifth inverted) then major thirds. A harmonic series: A, A (octave above), E(12th above, A(double octave), C#(octave and a 10th above) G(double octave and a 7th above), A (triple octave above) I think that's right... so the point is that you give priority to the notes that appear first, because they are louder and therefore stronger, it's to do witht he way the string divides up as it vibrates. You can't have them all smooth. So octaves (smooth fifths (just off smooth) fourths (a little more off smooth) and thirds beat like the clappers. There's no avoiding it. If you can find it, read about Pythagoras' mono chord experiments.

[chris flatley]

there is something you can do to test this out. Tune your B string to your G string using the 4th fret unison method, then pick out the harm. that appears just before the 4th fret of the G string and the harm. at the 5th fret of the B string so that they ring out together (it's not so easy to pick out the one on the 4th fret but it's there) Once you hear the beat rate, flatten the B string and keep checking until the harmonics are smooth. Then play the D at the 3rd fret of the B string together with the open G and listen to it. Then play the G at the 8th fret of the B string with the open G and listen to it. it'll sound pretty awful, but the major third beating doesn't sound as obvious to the ear.

[chris flatley]

sorry Mattson, got your name wrong, I meant Matt

[Mattson]

yeah, that was just annoying me a little. and neat trick there^ id noticed how it was off when i use that harmonic to tune, but id never known why. could you go through how a few other intervals should sound, like minor 3rds and 7ths?

[chris flatley]

I'm coming at this from a piano tuning point of view, so 7ths are not used for tuning, if you tune the other intervals the 7ths will just fall in naturally. The only 8rd that I would tune as a piano tuner is middle C to the E above, which is where I would start to tune a piano. This third beats 10.38 times a second, obviously you cna't count the beats but you just get used to how it sounds. The thirds increase as you go up in pitch. Most of them are beating to fast to distinguish. Only the 3rds in the middle section of a piano can be heard properly. So you use 10ths to instead e.g you would check the E an octave above the one after middle C and it beats at the same rate 10.38, but if you played that same E with the C an octave above middle C it would be beyond a blur. When tuning a piano, you first tune the 12 notes around middle C, from the G below to the F# above, and apart from the C E third you use all fourths and fifths: G to C, D to G, A to D, check with the E, B to E, F# to B etc. until that 12 note chromatic scale is in. Then you go up the piano in octaves starting G to G and you use double octave 10th, 12th and 19th checks to make sure you're not running flat. You work down the bass in the same way. So 7th never come in to it. To cut a long story short, I have no idea how a 7th should sound beatwise

[chris flatley]

8rd=3rd

[chris flatley]

just noticed you asked about minor 3rds didn't you, rather than majors, again they're not used for tuning. But they beat quite fast like the majors except that whereas majors are Wide, minors are Narrow but don't quote me on that because I did my training over 10 years ago and I'm having to dredge my memory banks a bit for the stuff that isn't used day to day

[rik231]

chris, theory is great but you sound a little sad (very talented by the sounds of it) but sad!

shame:-

[chris flatley]

I probably am, but I'm comfortable with who I am. I'm interested in physics maths science books and I don't mind the odd fantasy novel. In the eyes of some people that makes me a nerd but that's no problem. But if you mean I'm sad as in unhappy you're wrong on that score. And I'm not talented, I'm an pretty crappy guitar player, not even on the first step of real musicianship.

[ohmerrymayhem]

chris flatley wrote:

tuning the harmonic at the 5th fret of the E string perfectly smooth with the harmonic at the 7th fret of the A string isn't accuate I'm afraid. I used to think so too but know I have a diploma that says it ain't. Once again I really don't mean to sound like a smart arse. When I referred to fourths and fifths I was talking about intervals and not fret numbers

So anything behind a diploma is inesacapably true? That's not a good way to think. Plenty of people with a diploma (or multiple diplomas) are wrong on a daily basis. Base your theory on something other than just something you read out of a book or somethin another guy told you. I can tune my guitar, using the harmonic method, to pitch, by ear and checked with a tuner. Tell that to your diploma.

[ohmerrymayhem]

Oh, and just for the record, without me being mean spirited - you do sound like a smart ass.. You're not meaning to, I'm sure. Just letting you know.

[niguitars.com]

yeah chris the tu2 i think is more accurate than most peoples ears
id rateher be a cent out than anal about my a's being exactly 440 i think youd be better suited in pure music theory forum than ug alot of people here are big fans of hendrix and even me with my crappy industry standard tuner can hear he was often a good bit out

[chris flatley]

my point about the diploma was that if I'd have tuned my fuorths smooth I'd wouldn't have passed the exam. And it's a scientific fact not just someone's opinion. I have real world experience, tuning is my profession, I didn't just read a book and think that's a must be right, it's based on thuosands of hours of personal experience. Pianos have a 7 octave range and over 200 strings so inaccuracy is much more apparent than on a guitar. If I do sound like a smart arse and I know I do, it's because I'm passionate about teh things I believe and I'm an honet person. There are people especially in the PC world who love to baffle people because they get off on "I know something you don't know". I'm not one of em, I wrote this article to share the things I've learned, not to be a clever sod. And you're right niguitar, there are guitarists who can make an out of tune guitar sound fantastic, and I'd swap my technical knowledge for their practical skill in an instant.

[jk919]

Amen, Brother Flatley!!!!! Brother Flatley everyone.

[forsaknazrael]

hey, this is how i tune. Cool stuff.

[mattyp90]

So, to the people discussing Fb and E and Ebb notes and the like, when I hear a song that is between frets (a quarter step up/down), for example "No Surprises" by Radiohead, it's actually musically legitimate and could be written out perfectly in standard notation using these strange notes? I've always wondered about it because it really annoys me when I have to tune my guitar such a miniscule degree differently in order to play a song.

[chris flatley]

yeah, I noticed that on No Surprises too. Seems strange that a band like Radiohead would have their guitars a little below pitch, it would certainly make life needlessly awkward for overdubbing stuff later. It could be that they recorded at standard pitch and then decided to slow it down a fraction for some reason, to give it a slightly laid back lazy feel. If there was a harmonica on it then I'd say it was that cos they're a bitch, never on pitch so everything has to be tuned to them. Don't know why Hohner can't sort that out. I like some of Roy Harper's stuff and his guitar is never in the same place twice, which is a pain, but it's just him and his acoustic, but it's strange for a band to do it. By the way, thanks to the guys who appreciate the article, I've been a bit defensive and techy with the people who have been dismissive of the value of this technique but I haven't thanked the people who've been supportive, so cheers guys.

[isaac_bandits]

The notes in those songs can be musically notated, but not with the twelve tone scale. There are half flats which lower the note 1 quarter tone, and look like a backwards flat. Flat and a halfs look like a flat with a mirror image that is joined at its stem and lower the pitch 3 quarter tones. Half sharps raise pitch 1 quarter tone, and look like half a sharp sign, with one line going up, and two across it. Sharp and a halfs raise the pitch 3 quartertones, and look like a sharp with three vertical lines. So A (sharp and a hlaf) is equal to B (half flat). Notating a song like this would be a bitch, unless you were to put half flats etc in the key signature

Nice article, should help me a lot.
Checked too

[tweekus420ccc]

the article was cool and everything but what is wrong with using a regular old tuner? is it not as accurate as i thought it was? ps. wanna hear som crazy jimi hendrix out of tune shit then listen to his woodstock cd.

[chris flatley]

The problem I have with tuners isn't that they aren't accurate but that it only gives you one point of reference. If it's a chromatic tuner that produces tones then you're just tuning open string unisons to the tones produced by the machine. So you have to still use your ears and I just think if you're going to use your ears you might aswell check the whole fretboard and check every string in relation to every other string and that's what this system allows you to do. Also has slight intonation problems you can compromise a bit and your chords will sound as good at the 10th fret as they do in root position. Same goes fo r the 5th and 7th fret hamonics, they're very close to being accurate but again it's just one point of reference and it's only neighbouring strings. I just think that this system is the best all round system for making chords sound nice... and it improves your ear a hell of a lot so that you can tell just by playing a chord if your guitar is slightly out.

[barking boris]

Some more information about the A# Bb thing, it's all about the key you're playing in. I play the guitar and piano, but also the trombone, and for trombone playing you have to have a good ear to correctly place the slide in an in-tune position. For instance, the note D on a trombone is normally played at 4th position. If I was playing a D in a D major scale, I would play it at normal 4th position, but if I was playing D in an Eb Major scale(where it would be the leading note)I would sharpen it slightly otherwise it would sound out of tune. Hope this makes a bit of sense. And you were right when you said pianos can't tell which key you are playing in, so none of this is relevant if you were playing the piano.

[CLaSH88]

Checked... always wanted to say that... did not understand any of it... i think i'm tone deaf

[shwilly]

When you pluck an open string on a guitar, not only do you get the note produced by the open string as it vibrates along it's whole length, but also a series of upper partials. These are known as the Harmonic series.

You don’t hear these upper partials because the open string, vibrating along it's entire length, displaces much more air than the upper partials and therefore is much louder. The volume of the open string drowns out the quieter upper partials.

okay, so are these the harmonics I hear when singing certain notes right into the soundhole of my acoustic guitar? For example: when I hit a high b, the b-string will produce a very loud harmonic-like sound (which isn't there when I do the same with a low b), or were you referring to a whole different type of harmonics?

Sweet article, by the way!

[chris flatley]

Yes they are the same harmonics, you're getting sympathetic vibrations. When you sing the high B you're singing the same frequency as the harmonic and so it is ringing out clearly. It's the same thing happening when an opera singer shatters a glass, which I'm not sure is true or a myth as I've never seen it done but it's definately possible in principle. Chimney stacks can be reduced to rubble if the wind starts them vibrating at a ccertain frequency and so they're designed with that in mind. There are people who claim to be able to hear up to the 9th harmonic just by playing a note on a piano, not sure I believe them. Most people just hear one note rather thatn a series of notes. If you play the 12th fret harmonic and then the open string you can hear the second harmonic because you've zoomed in on it. The same gois for the 7th, 5th fret etc. The harmonic series goes much further than the few notes I've talked about, you can get every note but the become more and more "out of tune" the further up the series you go.

[LeftyDave]

There are many ways in which to tune a guitar, but there is one that works very well, and is nearly flawless in design and application. Tune the high E using a quality tuner, and make sure it is dead on, neither flat nor sharp. Now begin to tune the rest of the strings to that note. Work your way down to low E. Fret the B string at 5th fret for E, listen to the "wah, wah's" and tune to match. Now the G string at the 9th fret to the hi E. Next is the D string at the 14th fret to hi E. Then is the A string at 7th fret, which will be an octave below hi E. Lastly is low E, which you will do the harmonic on 5th fret.

[LeftyDave]

Now cross check that tuning with the following:
Low E harmonic at 12th fret to fretted A string at 7th fret. A harmonic at 12th fret to D fretted at 7th fret.
D harmonic at 12th to G fretted at 7th. G harmonic at 12th to B fretted at 8th fret. And lastly B harmonic at 12th to hi E fretted at 7th. By tuning both ways you will find that the guitar is very very well tuned, and can even help with some poorly adjusted guitars, or those with minor intonation issues. Give it a try.

[LeftyDave]

In the first of these 3 posts, tuning all the strings to the high E string will eliminate small errors on one string affecting the others. By cross checking with the harmonics, you are basically doing what Chris wrote, but just in a simplified way, with out all the jargon. The "kiss" rule applies to guitars too. Keep It Simple Sucka.

[chris flatley]

I was going to keep my mouth shut, as your system is certainly an improvement on the 5th fret unison method and it doesn't contain the flaws of the 5th 7th fret harmonic method. But then I read the Keep It Simple bit. The system I described in the article is only complicated in words because I had to go into detail about interval beat rates and coincidental harmonics without being able to pick up a guitar and demonstrate. In practise it is a simple system. I can go from EADGBE to DADF#AD in seconds using intervals. It's a very quick way to tune a guitar. Also, it's about intonation too, if your electric guitar has intonation problems then this system will tell you exactly which way to move the saddle piece. And if your acoustic guitar has intonation trouble and you have to take it to a tech to get the saddle compensated then you'll know exactly what needs doing and so you'll know if the tech has done a good job. Also it helps to let a tech know that you know what needs doing, he'll be less inclined to charge you for stuff that doesn't need doing. I do accept that this system isn't for everyone, and your system is more appealing to a lot of people and it's not a bad one.

[LeftyDave]

Chris, the "kiss" bit was not meant out of disrespect, but rather for newbies, beginners, intermediates to guitaring that don't really need to know, or don't care to know about what causes what and why this does that in relation to tuning. It is dummied down, but with good reason. In today's rush rush, fast paced world, many people just don't have the time to read and learn vast amounts of information, unless they wish to. This method, practiced a few times and used regularly, is basic, easy and fast, just as yours is once you get right down to it. I do understand your point of view tho in that your trying to describe something in text without the help of visual aids, and also I did enjoy the article. Your very knowledgable about music theory, but many are not, thus my post(s).

[chris flatley]

It's true that accesibility is where this technique falls on it's arse. A good point; made without having to resort to calling me anal, sad, naive or a smart arse. So thatnks for that (laugh).

[David Fyfield]

David Fyfield,

Hi Chris,

Fantastic article,

Man has known about harmonics since 500 BC when pythagorus's mates wrote about 1/2 string and 1/3 rd a string etc.The problem about any explanation to create understanding is that the best approach is to assume a variety of (in your case) readers have the full spectrum of background knowledge from nil to your level.This will enable you to pass the information on in many different ways and so catch each type of learner.Its hard being perfect.
When a guitar is in tune and starts ringing with sympathetic harmonics its the most wonderfull sound.
Often this is not captured on recorded music and is the extra enjoyment a listener and performer gets from a live performance in a small quiet venue.
When a guitarist achieves this it is perfect.
Its best to love what you play and to love the listener.
Thanks

[zhille]

I agree with David about the article, and about Sympathetic..., for example, when my guitar is in
"Sympathetic Tune" I find myself playing chordal acoustic music for hours...and find myself amazed by the sound and in love with the music.

One thing I would like to point out is CORRECT INTONATION!I don't know the english expression, but in Serbia we call it something like "Coting"

You can tune your guitar perfect, only if it's perfectly intonated! All the effort is meaningless when even one string goes out of intonation.(for begginers: by that I mean when your, for example, E on the 12th fret of the E string sounds off tune and your open E is right in tune.)

The thing I hate the most in my life is changing strings on guitars with Floyd Rose type locking tremolos. Every time new strings go out of intonation and you need awful lot of time to correct the intonation, and it's a pain in the ass process. But without that you can never tune a guitar to sound right!
So, guitar and bass playesr, before you tune, or start "barking" at a man who tries to contribute and share knowledge, check your intonation!

[jbrandon]

Excellent read!

[David Fyfield]

Hi Zhille: From David Fyfield

I hope its OK in Serbia?

It must be a pain with tremolos. Just give up a little and play very slightly out of tune. After all the average tuner who has a lot of experience can tune to about 2 htz. Getting to zero as you said just
depends upon the correct intonation as well as your ear.Life is too short if you do not have a guitar set up perfectly. I play an acoustic Fylde guitar. Check out Roger Bucknells Fylde guitar site in UK.
He made the one I have rather well.

It is a great idear to give beginners a chance to have their guitar intonation checked by someone who can re-set up the guitar. Even so called cheap guitars can be improved way beyond the makers capabilities by a geezer who knows what he is doing
and can get the best out of what was a poorly made instrument.

[PerfectCrime]

thanks for this chris, this is really great - tis way better than using a tuner. I actually found the 3rd intervals easiest to do althougth i gound the first a-e one the hardest - proably because i've a bit of fret buzz; but i'll sort that out sometime and proably try out this technique for setting the intonation.

Thanks for the great article, and sorry for ever thinking that an elctric tuner could do the same as a professional piano tuner!

[ades]

One of the best articles I've read.

However, I do have one question for you: can the GB strings not be tuned using the 2nd 3rd of 4th harmonics?

[chris flatley]

ades wrote:

One of the best articles I've read.

However, I do have one question for you: can the GB strings not be tuned using the 2nd 3rd of 4th harmonics?

The coincidental harmonics for a major third e.g GB are the 5th harm. of the root(G) and the 4th harm. of the third(B). Though they will have a relatively fast beat rate.. and it's a bit awkward to cleanly pick them out.