Music And Politics. Round 2

Music and Politics have a long history. In the last century, they've managed to take cheap shots at each other, and in the last decade, it's become personal.

The latest craze, it seems, is for musicians to make stupid public comments against U.S. President George W. Bush. Many people seem to regard Bush-hating as some stupid hobby that pop-punk kids take up because somebody else does it. Somehow, your credibility is lost when you want to both make a political comment, and you can play guitar.

I'll first start off by saying that I consider myself a very "political" person - I read news stories and editorial writings daily, and consider myself to be very well versed about the ins and outs of music and politics, so I know what I'm talking about.

History

Music first joined hands with politics and religion in the Classical Age. Almost all classical composers you can think of would not exist were it not for the Roman Catholic Church. In those days, musicians needed a sponsor, a source of money, to be able to compose and distribute their music. Many times, the officials would exert great influence on a composer to write an opera about a certain subject, or to not write an opera about a certain subject - you can see this in the movie Amadeus, which is about Mozart's life.

Beethoven was the first "freelance" musician - he would write music independantly, and then have it performed for profit, without requiring a sponsor. This method didn't work very well, as he was never exceedingly wealthy.

It was not until the 1950's that music and politics began taking shots at each other. That crazy devil known as Rock & Roll started it all. Many areas in the United States attempted to place a ban on Rock & Roll, and the tight clothing and outrageous dancing it spawned. Parents were afraid of the music, and when Elvis Presley started playing it, visions of the apocalypse were seen by adult society.

Music began to strike back by the late 60's. The Vietnam war started the Anti-Vietnam War movement, and musicians were more than willing to help out. Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, and the Animal's "We Gotta Get Out Of This Place" are some examples. It's also possible that mainstream artists making music against the war helped to solidify the movement outside of its core supporters, putting a firm mark on society since.

Music And Politics Today

In this day and age, it seems that politics is making a comeback in music. After all, a slew of punk and pop-punk bands are making stands (NoFX's "War On Errorism" and "Rock Against Bush"), and Chris Martin of Coldplay dedicated their Grammy award for John Kerry - at a time when Howard Dean was still leading in the Democratic Primaries.

But even so, it's hard to name even five bands or artists that are taking a political side in their music - in any direction. Even now, I can only think of Matthew Good (who you've all read about in my latest article), who manages to keep an entire blog about current events on his website.

It's easy to say that music should stay away from politics. In fact, it's a growing sentiment - "He's a musician! He doesn't know anyting about politics!". Frankly, that argument carries about as much weight as "You don't play soccer! Why are you watching soccer games on TV?"

I, personally, find it as a positive thing that artists would go on TV in front of millions of viewers, and let them know what they think about a number of issues - the war in Iraq, the United States election in November, the baby seal hunt, the plight of the Asian Longhorned Beetle... you get the idea.

What is not positive, however, is the knee-jerk reaction by mainstream media. The Dixie Chicks were banned from a wide number of radio stations across the United States after declaring they were ashamed that President Bush being from their home state, Texas.

Some musicians have conceded that after making a statement, they are audited by the IRS. Doesn't that sound like democracy to you? In a time when worldwide terrorism is at an alarming high rate, a country has been invaded illegally, and the United States is facing some of the worst leadership in recent memory (and you'll have to agree with me on that), why shouldn't people in the public eye be allowed to voice whatever opinions they have? I'm sure you've all heard the conspiracy theories about how mainstream media is pure propoganda to the government, so is it wrong for someone to want to speak out?

What's truly pathetic is how political musicians are regarded. When a person stands on a street corner with a megaphone denouncing the government for it's latest screw-up (any country will do), people will stand by and applaud the person for their bravery to make fools of themselves in public. But when someone that's famous decides to say the exact same thing in an interview on TV, the outfall would be comparable to people throwing rocks at the protestor in my comparison. Why be punished for excercising a Democratic right? Is it because politics is boring and "uncool"?

Like it or not, politics does affect you. Those boring pushovers in Congress (or House of Commons for the Brits and Canadians) hold an incredible amount of power over the country. Musicians who take action have it right. Far too many people are content to say, "Screw politics!" and pretend like nothing's going wrong. Taking action is the cure. Any artist who takes up a worthy cause, from human rights to animal rights to saving the trees is, invariably, contributing to something better.

Think about it. What would you say is better?

When Britney Spears made the comment in an interview that people "shouldn't question" and should "trust" the President in his decision to go to war, what was she doing? What was that? I would say it's apathy. Ms. Spears happens to hold a lot of influence. By telling millions of fans that people shouldn't question the government in a decision to go to war, was anything positive going on? Not at all. In a democracy, we all have the right to get up and say whatever we want about whatever we want. Telling people to lie down and accept what's coming isn't just wrong, it violates everything we believe in.

By comparison, when Chris Martin dedicated his Grammy award to John Kerry (which I thought was an unbelievably stupid comment), what do you think he was doing, aside from making an idiot of himself? I think he was contributing to discussion, albeit in a stupid way. In my opinion, he should have taken it upon himself to question those in power, rather than to support someone who may be elected in to power. But, you have to admit, he didn't say that John Kerry should be elected president - rather, he said that he wanted John Kerry to be president, which is far more humble than saying that John Kerry should be president.

Now, you might be thinking that I'm showing a liberal bias here, by denouncing a comment that supports President Bush, and supporting one that denounces him - so I'll make it clear. Saying that we should just trust the President does not contribute to anything. It only takes away from discussion. Had Britney Spears said something along the lines of, "Yes, I support the President and I support the War in Iraq, because it's the right thing to do.", it would have contributed to discussion on whether or not the war was right.

"But wait!" you're saying. "Chris Martin is English! He doesn't know anything about American politics!" Well, that's a rather narrow view. And I do find that people hold this sentiment. And the simple answer is this:

Just because you don't know anything about another country doesn't mean that they don't know anything about you. If Chris Martin took it upon himself to tell the world he supported John Kerry, you can be sure that he did his homework about the subject. It'd be like a student doing a project in school on World War II, and not reading anything about World War II - or at least reading very little. People that seriously hold the opinion that "foreigners" should have nothing to do with their country are just as bad as people that say musicians shouldn't be allowed to hold opinions.

Face it. Musicians are people (with or without their soul), and that's where their right to express an opinion comes from. Mediocre pop-punk bands are wildly popular expressing the opinion that girls are stupid after being dumped by their girlfriend, but when the same band contributes to a CD in support of a political movement, they become a stupid pop-punk band. Doesn't that sound great.

I am not trying to say that all musicians should be making political statements. But it's safe to say that in the state the world is in, more musicians should be making intelligent commentaries than there are now - and bands that do make smart statements should be respected for having the balls to denounce a politician of their choice. Of course, an exception applies to Britney Spears, or statements that don't contribute to something positive and democratic.

Comments

[TGM]

A bit too forcing with the opions. I agree with quite a few of your opinions, but the only part that I really liked was the start. I'd like to see a more in depth article on that. The rest was a bit too rantish.

Overal good, but it will stir things up...

[Wounded Hamster]

Well said, and I agree. Musicians putting across a political point of view through their music is a valid way to express themselves, and it definately makes a change from all the bland lyrics about girlfriends and so on that we hear all the time.

[TGM]

Sorry about the double post.

You are right though, the opions of musicians should not be taken differantly than the opions of other people.

[damn-right!]

hmm not a bad article, you had some good points, if youre lookin for political bands that arent just sayin *** bush, that are contributing in a good way to the mass political arguement, check out drongos for europe, false idol and ground zero.

[Sorrynametaken]

It's easy to say that music should stay away from politics. In fact, it's a growing sentiment - "He's a musician! He doesn't know anyting about politics!". Frankly, that argument carries about as much weight as "You don't play soccer! Why are you watching soccer games on TV?"

On that subject: The American people aren't experts but they elect officials.

[tbs_182]

not bad. i like how you expressed opinions and didnt condemn people for theirs. some good points; good article.

[amunspawn]

i thought we just had the same argument in the rockers vote for choice article or whatever it was called.

[eon_blue56]

. "Chris Martin is English! He doesn't know anything about American politics!"

thats about the same as george W talking about war, he doesnt know anything about war cause he was busy partying and doing crack with his friends while underprivalidged (sp?) kids and minorities were off at nam getting killed

[GuitarJunkie]

eon blue56...lol, good point

[GuitarJunkie]

i would like to make a point...during the vietnam war the country was pretty much divided on wheather we shold have troops in vietnam, until the end of the war of course (at least i think this is right)...and now later, we look back, and most see vietnam as a war that should not have been fought by us. An now, the Iraq situation has the american people in a virtual split as to wheather we should be there or not...as did vietnam...im thinking that in 20 yrs this way will be looked at as another vietnam....keep in mind im not talking about the war on terror..if you can even declare a war on terror, G.W.Bush apparently thinks he can declare war on everything (poverty, terror, etc). anyways thats off topic...will this be looked at as another vietnam as it is following a similar trend in terms of belief by the public?

[poot]

that was a really good article.

[dr_guitar3011]

You know... you guys all bash bush, and say kerry is some kind of hero? well u do know that after he left vietnam that he started to protest the war and say everything about it was wrong. Yet he still allows himself to be considered a war hero. the guy even won medals, ill give him credit for that, but then he takes, not his own medals, but someone elses and throws them on the White house lawn. He does this all in the name of what is right, blah-blah. And, In many reports in magazines and TV interviews by soldiers who knew kerry, or fought with him thought of him as an asswhole. Plus, since u guys like kerry so much im sure u like clinton also, and he went to cananda to avoid the draft for Nam. WTF!? And kerry says clinton was a good president? Not to mention he got head on the job!! Well, im about spent so screw all u retards out there who think u know politics, and flame the hell out of me, i dont care. At least i know the difference between a real american and an ass like kerry.

[harm0n20]

clinton was actually a very good president. he was incredibly smart. people base how good he was in office by what kind of a person he is. so what if he got head? that doesnt make him a bad president. he made jobs available for millions of unemployed americans. in my opinion he was the best president since roosevelt! oh and dr_guitar, is it american to go to war with some country FOR NO REASON AT ALL!?!?! the "american" thing to do would've been getting Osama Bin Laden, not saddam hussein!

[harm0n20]

o yeah good article. had some very good points.

[FlyingFuc!<]

that's a lot of typing. I just think everyone should get along.

[Matty Ramone]

I dont care what music artists have to say about politics
they should just shut up and play there songs and move on
Fuck politics

[rakim126]

matty, thats what this whole article is about you dolt.


dr guitar... you are an idiot, whether a person fights in a war, avoids fighting in a war, gets head, or is an asshole really doesnt effect their policies on welfare, healthcare, social security, medicare etc etc etc.


you think someone cant be a good leader because they skipped town not to go to war? good thinkin chief.

[distorted_order]

good article
definately better than the first one...

[Larry Walnut]

I agree and I disagree. Yes, this is a supposed democracy. Yes, people should be allowed to stand for what they believe.

The thing is that these "superbands" have an enormous following, and are capable of changing the outcome of elections and such. If you want to vote democrat...awsome, more power to you. That doesn't mean you should try to sway millions into believing what you believe.

All it is is political evangelism. People are so against religious evangelism now days...why create a blatant double standard by endorsing political evangelism?

Who is to say that said musician is correct in their beliefs? It is jsut as possible as them to be wrong as it is for average Joe walking down the street. Does being in the spotlight make them more educated than the average person? No...does being in the spotlight give them more sway than the average person? YES...we should not give any one person so much power, especially since they are no more educated than the average person (in most cases).

I say...let them vote, but keep your political views to yourself, cause you will inevitably cause othesr to think in the same way you do.

Do you really want the voters of tomorrow to be getting their opinions from musicians instead of history and investigations? I hope not, but it will happen if rock stars continue to voice their political opinions, whether it be conservative or liberal.

Many people will just assume that they know what they are talking about, because if they were proven wrong on nation wide TV, they would look like a bunch of fools...so they MUST know what they are talking about right?

...so while technically, they can voice their opinions. Morally, they should keep them to themselves, because of the amount of potential sway they hold.

[little_smokes]

first id like to say that was a god article.

now im really getting tired of people that dont know crap like eon, harmon and guitar junkie especially harmon. first of all clinton omfg was the worst president ever because he didnt do ANYTHING we get attacked several times by terorist what does he do sh*t. second kerry is a scum to the u.s he talked about the war some much and thinks he a war hero for having a few bandades on his arm so he gets medals for that wow.... and third u say bush is in iraq for nothin wow ur dumb, tell me this why did we sent most our troops to germany after we got bombed at pearl harbor hmmm maybe because germany had the most power so y take out the little one when u can take out the big on u see , soo same thing goes for iraq freaking we know they had weapons ITS DOCUMENTED BY THE U.N. dumbass and we knew osama was conected with him so do me a favor and know wtf ur talking about ok just shut up and play ur guitar :P

[Larry Walnut]

^^Iraq wasn't "the big one"...and your entire post gets a very emphasized *sigh*

[Diceman42]

Music and Politics have a long history. In the last century, they've managed to take cheap shots at each other, and in the last decade, it's become personal.

Let's not forget Tipper Gore's (wife of Senator Al Gore) PMRC and censorship crusade vs. Dee Snider and Frank Zappa vying for free speech. (The b*tch won)

[Backup Guitar]

I agree, Larry, little_smokes needs to grow up and do a bit of reading.

[civildp1]

What is not positive, however, is the knee-jerk reaction by mainstream media. The Dixie Chicks were banned from a wide number of radio stations across the United States after declaring they were ashamed that President Bush being from their home state, Texas

the huge reaction had less to do with the media and more to do with country music fans. Excluding Bill O'reilly(who is a pompass jackass) Most of the media just covered it. People cry for free speach but then get mad when people don't like what they are saying. The 1st amendment allows you to sa what you believe and me to stop buying your records because I disagree.

[amunspawn]

christ i'm not even going to bother arguing with these kids anymore. they still reel ou the same crap about the scary bogeyman terrorists coming to get them and ooh we have to protect ourselves from the scary bearded people. all i can say is just shut up and read some real history of the world not the crap they teach in school.

[PsychoWolfD]

So maybe it is all right for musicians to express their opinions, but if he or she is gonna do that, they should do it OUT of concerts/live performances, because the audience is a mix of people, ALSO with their own different opinions, and not everyone there will want to agree to that artist's views. If the band/artist thinks that by saying live about his political opinion, every single one of his fans will shout and cheer hims on out of agreement and full support, boy, he is mistaken.

I agree with most of the things about the presidents and Kerry that little_smokes said, by the way.

[smell_my_cheese]

Chris Martin is English! He doesn't know anything about American politics!"

in the same way that george bush is american! he doesn't know anything about Iraq

[ellecrumpets]

Good article, lots of good points that I agree with.

[amunspawn]

smell my cheese: bush doesnt know anything about iraq because hes a retard

[DaveDaThrasha]

......grow up... u guys are all ***in morons..... specially those of u who dont kno what ur talkin bout (little_smokes) I agree with some of this article... he makes a good point.. but i dont think musicians should necessarily try an sway the vote, its great to voice ur opinion, but not like force it on ppl, all these bands... nofx an the like.. that are registering ppl to vote thats baddass.. cuz if we can have a buncha ppl voting an voting right... wed be better off... tho frankly i think were ***ed either way, but thats my opinion , but on the flipside... i dont support these rock against bush compilations an shit.... thats ***in bogus... thats just shovin it down our throats... let alone i thought it was crap.... ne ways.... just ***in stick ralph nader as a write in bitches! RALPH NADER FOR PREZ!!!... jk.... were screwed no matter who we pick... its a prerequisite for being a president... being a lying scamming crack head bastard.....

[PsychoWolfD]

^well, if we knew a lot about Iraq, and I know we do, Bush knows just as well about Iraq.

[PsychoWolfD]

wait, the ^ was aimed at amunspawn, not you, DaveDaThrasha, sorry about that.

[tremontifan]

clinton was actually a very good president. he was incredibly smart. people base how good he was in office by what kind of a person he is. so what if he got head? that doesnt make him a bad president. he made jobs available for millions of unemployed americans. in my opinion he was the best president since roosevelt! oh and dr_guitar, is it american to go to war with some country FOR NO REASON AT ALL!?!?! the "american" thing to do would've been getting Osama Bin Laden, not saddam hussein!

for all you people who believe that president's hold that much influence on the job market, well, they don't. president's are always given far to much blame or credit for the economy. in a capitalist society like ours, the economy is largely self-regulating.
we went to war for legitimate reasons. everyone knows that we got extraordinarily bad intelligence, that's why the CIA and everything is getting shaken up. and btw, fdr's New Deal didn't help pull us out of the depression. World War II, and the consequent rise in production and jobs did. Kerry is a moron, flip-flopping back and forth on every issue.

[proguit933]

i would rather have kerry than bush as a president, good article.

Here is my take on the whole situation. . . and I dont want to see any snot-nosed dribblers saying "That is too long to read" and such. ..

My point of view is that people are at a concert to hear that musician's music, not their opinions on how others should vote. It is an unfair platform for them to be able to get on stage, say what they want about someone you may support, and not be able to do anything about it. If these musicians had real balls they would go onto Bill O'Reilly, Bill Mahr or Crossfire, or any other channel dedicated to News and politics (a la Ben Affleck and Art Alexikis). . .

These artists believe that since they have a microphone and a crows, they can say whatever they want and get away with it. But alot of times the artists feel the heat of speaking their mind. The Dixie Chicks felt a substantial loss in radio air time when hundreds of stations pulled the plug on all of their music. Actor Tim Robbins felt a backlash when The Baseball HOF did not invite him to the 20th Anniversery of his movie "Bull Durham", only to later cancel the show entirely because of his political remarks. In the early 70s, Jane Fonda was tagged by America as "Hanoi Jane" because of her anti- American comments regarding the Vietnam War. Her movies recievied similar backlashes. . .

Americans do not want their entertainers to speak to them about voting records and war. They have plenty of people in the media and on Capital Hill to do that. It is really the people who speak out and never back anything up that really get on my nerves (Sum 41, Dixie Chicks, etc. . . ) but I have alot more respect for people who speak their mind and follow through (Ben Affleck, Willie Nelson, Art Alexikis, etc. . .). . .

[DumbKids]

Good article.

I think musio and politics shouldn't mix unless the band really knows what they are talking about.

[MrLucky77713]

Shut up everyone. This wasn't aboput the specific politics. It was about the way artists present their political opinions using their music as a media/forum. I don't care who you like more. This article was greta, Backup, like I said before. 5 fucking stars

[Twilight]

First of all, musicians can't "choose" what talk shows they are guests on. They are asked by the producers of that show. The statement that if they had real balls they would go on crossfire is really subject to actually being invited onto that show.

Second, bands that are overwhelmingly political like Nofx and Anti-Flag...one major part of their appeal is their politics. You don't see a bunch of conservatives at a Nofx concert (trust me I've gone lol). And when you hear their lyrics, a conservative minded person is going to go, "wow this is a load of BS." they are not going to to all of the sudden say "wow, I've been asleep all this time, I better vote for Kerry!"

[Punkrockguy17]

You know... you guys all bash bush, and say kerry is some kind of hero? well u do know that after he left vietnam that he started to protest the war and say everything about it was wrong. Yet he still allows himself to be considered a war hero. the guy even won medals, ill give him credit for that, but then he takes, not his own medals, but someone elses and throws them on the White house lawn. He does this all in the name of what is right, blah-blah. And, In many reports in magazines and TV interviews by soldiers who knew kerry, or fought with him thought of him as an asswhole. Plus, since u guys like kerry so much im sure u like clinton also, and he went to cananda to avoid the draft for Nam. WTF!? And kerry says clinton was a good president? Not to mention he got head on the job!! Well, im about spent so screw all u retards out there who think u know politics, and flame the hell out of me, i dont care. At least i know the difference between a real american and an ass like kerry.

first off, kerry had the right to protest it, he actually went. and you still can be considered a war hero cause this was outside the war not inside that he protested. ok who cares if clinton got head on the job? he ran the country really well isn't that what matters? i don't care if he lied about having sex its a personal thing not a topic that the american people should really care about, he put a good image on America still. Ok Clinton went to Canada, Bush went to the national gaurd, even if he didn't report for duty, he was still in the national gaurd which would mean he wouldn't have to go to Nam. i'm going to stop now. but good article 5 stars

[deadkenedy]

So mainstream musicians dont have a right to comment? Why is that.

[amunspawn]

psychowolf: dont try to tell me anything. i lived in iran for 5 years and i more about that area than any of you do so please dont lecture me about anything. i have already posted all i have had to say in the rockers vote for change article.

[dylan_f1989]

little_smokes

eon_blue56, GuitarJunkie and harm0n20 arn't the idiots who don't know what there talking about. Your the idiot who doens't know what your talking about. Look besides the Iraq war and the War on Terrorism GWB has totally demolished the American Senate bank balance. He dove into the Senate Bill #2 account which is untouchable wether in World crisis and used the money to buy more guns, bombs and resources to train soldiers so he would have more killed in Iraq. And the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour because the US cut off there Oil supply. At that time the Japanese had nothing to do with Germany and Hitler's recime. And any old fool would no that American Intelligince passed documents to the UN saying that there was WOMD in Iraq and then the UN kindly said "NO!" which with alot of pushing by GWB the UN agreed. But it still doesn't change the fact that the UN denied GWB the right to go invade Iraq which he did anyway.....but wait theres more. Suddan, why the FUCK arn't we doing anything. Why? Because theres no Oil there or know profits from invade Suddan. I hope the next president introduce can do something about Suddan.

[sanitarium017]

***i dont care i dont care i dont care i dont care***

[dylan_f1989]

invading*

introduced*

[free_iraq]

bush is a gimp end of story. but he'll stay on as president because he'll rig the election like last time. just watch fahrenheit 11/9

[martinbg]

First I would like to say good article..
I am not an american, I was born in Bulgaria and lived there for most of my life. The fact is that US politics doesn't affect only the USA but the whole world.
When the american bombers came to bomb Yuogoslavia the 'war' was 150km from where I live (Belgrade is located not more than 200km from Sofia the capital city of Bulgaria). They were using 'smart' bombs, the ones that follows a radar wave back to its source. One of these bombs intercepted a bulgarian radar and went into bulgarian territory. You will say "OK accidents happen". Yes they do but your asses aren't bombed. This bomb caused the death of two innocent people who didn't have anything to do with the US politics. And this is just one of the many cases when something goes wrong and innocent people die.. in Iraq it happens every day. While you are watching CNN having a coke ppl just like you are killed in the name of WHAT? I think the american public has to do something about this. I don't blame you guys who try to support your country but patriotism has to be based on the cause and you are not fighting for a just cause. That's what I had to say.

[(sic)kid]

I liked this article, it was a good rant with lots of backup, and an opinion that I think is strong. And nobody should listen to Britney Spears, she's one of those typical pop-star-ditz-whores. Lol. I think Kerry would make a great president.

[PsychoWolfD]

Some of you say that you should watch Fahrenheit 9/11 or somethings like that, but you really need to open your eyes and learn to tell them apart from lies. I mean, as CNN is an unfair, unbalanced democrat news, and the kicked Arnold Schwarzenegger's wife out, just because Schwarzenegger is an economist and Republican. There is no sense in that. CNN staff are radicals and socialists, like Michael Moore, a f***ing liar, with radical shit that just makes lies about Bush so he can look bad to weak-minded people. NO, Kerry would not make a great president. He will just make lies like Clinton. People whine about how Bush can't do his job, but Kerry is worse, I know it. Democrats are radicals/socialists. If Bush wins the election, Democrats will still go through dirty means to get Bush out of the White House. And of course, you can't just support the president and the war and stuff BLINDLY, but I support it because I see whats going on, I am not BLINDLY supporting him, and I KNOW Bush is right in his actions. Bush never cheated his way into winning an election like those radical bitches say. He won fair and square. There ARE real facts to back it up. Not lies.
Some people are hopeless. They will believe anything they hear just because its a 'popular thing to do' or 'because everybody does it'. And ok, I will stop for now. I was just expressing my opinion like a lot of them musicians...

[Cookie_master]

Dude, you seriously have time to much to type this crap. Its like one side bitching off the other. KNow what i mean?

[issacbrockrock]

I agree with the column ut not your opinon on bush

[tremontifan]

eon_blue56, GuitarJunkie and harm0n20 arn't the idiots who don't know what there talking about. Your the idiot who doens't know what your talking about. Look besides the Iraq war and the War on Terrorism GWB has totally demolished the American Senate bank balance. He dove into the Senate Bill #2 account which is untouchable wether in World crisis and used the money to buy more guns, bombs and resources to train soldiers so he would have more killed in Iraq. And the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour because the US cut off there Oil supply. At that time the Japanese had nothing to do with Germany and Hitler's recime. And any old fool would no that American Intelligince passed documents to the UN saying that there was WOMD in Iraq and then the UN kindly said "NO!" which with alot of pushing by GWB the UN agreed. But it still doesn't change the fact that the UN denied GWB the right to go invade Iraq which he did anyway.....but wait theres more. Suddan, why the FUCK arn't we doing anything. Why? Because theres no Oil there or know profits from invade Suddan. I hope the next president introduce can do something about Suddan

why should we need the permission of the (hopelessly corrupt) UN to act in a manner that we think is necessary for our security?

[tremontifan]

and slash_andrew, you are probably just some idiot kid that thinks politics doesn't affect him. while i myself am only 17, i am smart enough to know that what goes on at this level affects everyone (such as gas prices). and when you grow up, you'll realize that policies affect you in a big way. and don't take up space with stupid posts like that.

[tremontifan]

and to clear the air, Bill O'Reilly is a freaking independent who offers an appearance on his show to ANYONE in the media, politics, or entertainment who is willing to debate. it's just that most of these people who repeatedly insist on jamming their feet into their mouths don't know what the hell they are talking about and aren't willing to be made fools of (outside of their concerts of course).

[MrLucky77713]

why should we need the permission of the (hopelessly corrupt) UN to act in a manner that we think is necessary for our security?

How are they hopelessly corrupt?

and to clear the air, Bill O'Reilly is a freaking independent who offers an appearance on his show to ANYONE in the media, politics, or entertainment who is willing to debate. it's just that most of these people who repeatedly insist on jamming their feet into their mouths don't know what the hell they are talking about and aren't willing to be made fools of (outside of their concerts of course).

No no, Bill O'Reilly is INDEED a conservative, he simply isn't registered with any party and plays devil's advocate to keep you guessing. You should watch his show more often.

Really, tremonti, you should start adding some backup to your statements. Show me how the UN is corrupt? They aren't the ones depending on big bucks from private coroporations, now are they? And besides, we designed the way most of the UN works more than anybody else. So if we created it to be corrupt, doesn't that make us in turn corrupt? Or just hypocritical? Maybe it's hypocritical. We don't pay our dues yet we expect the UN to side with us. We demand help from them yet we ignore them, insult them, and throw away their treaties. Think about it.

[scumfuc_69]

I liked what the article was trying to do, but it
could've been a lot better. Bill O'Reilly is an arrogant asshole who views other peoples' opinions
as inferior to his own. If you pay attention to his show, he interupts literally everyone he disagrees with and conveniently "runs out of time" before he
can let them finish.

[systemetatic]

I would like to make a few points. I will come back to the article at the end.

A few of you people have stated that Bush makes a good president because at least he sticks to his guns and to what he believes in, not like Kerry who changes his mind. This argument is totally flawed. Neither qualities are good, what is good is a little thing called 'discretion'. In this case it means knowing when you are wrong and when to back down and apologise or knowing that you are right. This is something Clinton had.
At the time of the decision to go to war with Iraq both Bush and Kerry were informed by bad American intelligence that suggested that there were WMDs in Iraq. Since then this has been exposed as false, and John Kerry has had the courage to say that he was wrong. Bush hasn't, because he is a 'Commander-In-Chief'. It is a macho idea that you must always stick to your guns, otherwise you'll appear weak. As I heard not a few days ago
"Macho is bullshit."
Bush's macho attitude towards the war is costing US lives for what? Control of the Iraqi oil.

And for those of you that state that we went to war as a part of his "War On Terror". You're right. But only because he couldn't find Bin Laden, or didn't want to. You think that Usama Bin Laden had ties with Saddam? You're wrong. Listen to the experts of the affairs of the Middle East. Bin Laden hated Saddam's regime because it was strict enough to not allow him to operate in Iraq. If you're looking for ties to Bin Laden, then the Bush family are close the the Bin Laden family and on 10/11 Bush arranged for many Afghans and Saudis to be transported out of the country safely.

Most of the hi-jackers on 9/11 were Saudis. Doesn't that point to something?

I find it amazing that so many of you believe in the "War on Terrorism". Surely it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the best way to solve a problem is to attack it's roots, otherwise the problem doesn't go away - just whats visible. Like trying to weed your garden by chopping down nettles with the biggest stick you can find.
The reason for terrorist attacks on the USA is because of the way the USA has induced the poor in the middle east to hate the USA. They aren't just insane men with beards and turbans. They hate America with a fervour. They hate America so much that they are willing to sacrifice their lives to damage it in a small way. Ask yourself why. America has been interfering in the Middle East for decades acting in it's own interests and making the local's lives worse. Ever heard the phrase "Dollar Diplomacy"?
Now considering that, do you think the answer is to start killing people? Or is that going to piss them off even more, inducing more hatred and spawning new terrorists where there were none before.

[MrLucky77713]

^Exactly. Killing terrorists won't stop terrorism. In fact, I don't see any way to stop terrorism, ever. Terrorism comes from dissent and uncontented citizens. Unless they get everything they want, they won't stop. If they DO get everything they want, there will be terrorists on the other side of the coin, asking for different, opposite things. It's a problem that I don't see as something easily (if ever) solved. Surely, guns and bombs won't stop them. It will make them more resilient.

[Toad Rider]

First off, I have no clue where NOFX and similar bands got credit for being political. All they say is that Bush is a retarded Texan that turns poor little children into blood-thirsty mindless soldiers. I'm all for "political music", as long as there is something good to be heard... not just cheap shots that can't be backed up. I enjoy idealistic music and the sort, but I have not heard one good reason why Bush is a bad president. They all draw back to the same conspiracy theories. For the record, I think the whole "Florida vote rigging scandal" is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. As for Farenheit 9/11... well, I suppose it could have been a good documentary had it not been just a collection of negative snip-its that turn viewers against Bush due to not giving the whole story. I'm against Bush, but for better reasons than just him "being a stupid guy"... which is all that I've heard musicians say.

I'm an ignoramus and I haven't heard what every band has to say about political affairs, so would it be possible for anyone to give an example of a real political view a musician has given (other than "this war sucks" or "Bush is a moron")?

[RiseAgainst]

Great article Backup guitar. even though i don't care much about politics in music, or even politics in genaeral i though it was good. music artists should be able to say what they want just like we do, but i wish they just weren't so influencing on people who worship them and want to be just like them.

[Hendrix357]

saddam was a ***nut and he needed to be taken out sometime

[fuel13]

You know... you guys all bash bush, and say kerry is some kind of hero? well u do know that after he left vietnam that he started to protest the war and say everything about it was wrong. Yet he still allows himself to be considered a war hero. the guy even won medals, ill give him credit for that, but then he takes, not his own medals, but someone elses and throws them on the White house lawn. He does this all in the name of what is right, blah-blah. And, In many reports in magazines and TV interviews by soldiers who knew kerry, or fought with him thought of him as an asswhole. Plus, since u guys like kerry so much im sure u like clinton also, and he went to cananda to avoid the draft for Nam. WTF!? And kerry says clinton was a good president? Not to mention he got head on the job!! Well, im about spent so screw all u retards out there who think u know politics, and flame the hell out of me, i dont care. At least i know the difference between a real american and an ass like kerry -dr_guitar3011


thats a very good point. just because kerry went to war doesnt mean that he should run the country. hell, my uncle could run the country if thats all that matters. he just uses that as a way for people to feel sorry for him or vote for him. also, he left nam because he found a way to get out of it. if you get three purple hearts you are automatically pulled out of the war. he already had two, and the third one was self-inflicted. he had a grenade launcher or some other weapon and when he shot it it hit his shoulder which hurt his arm.

[Backup Guitar]

you guys all bash bush, and say kerry is some kind of hero? well u do know that after he left vietnam that he started to protest the war and say everything about it was wrong

Yeah.

Kerry won three purple hearts and two other medals in a war that he ultimately opposed, because he actually fought in it.

Bush won NO medals in a war he ultimately supported, because other people fought in it.

I guess Bush must be the better guy...

[trejam86]

Many have talked about Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam War and the medals he recieved there. Two of his three purple hearts were from self inflicted wounds and he reperted them as different. His final one came from when he threw a grenade into a rice field and the explosion caused rice to fly into his ass. His bronze star he got from reporting that there were two mines in the water ad he valiantly went in and saved the life of a crew-member who had fallen overboard. There was ONE mine. The ship that blew up wasn't Kerry's. Kerry's ship actually left the scene. This is also how Kerry "earned" his third purple heart. The rice field incident happened in the recent past.

I heard this information from one of the Swiftboat crewmen on another ship.

[AK Guitarist]

Why does everyone think this is a democracy? America is a REPUBLIC. Get it right!

To the person who said Clinton was a great president. Ok, so he's smart. Big deal. What did he do that was so special leading this country? Did you know that he had Osama's head handed to him on a silver platter on more than one occasion before 9-11 and he didn't do jack shit. Think about that for one. I can go all day, but I know yall are too stubborn to really listen.

Kerry is no war hero. He was there for only 4 months and found a way to get out because of his purple hearts. Does anyone know what he got them for? A SELF INFLICKED SCRATCH THAT ONLY REQUIRED A FUCKING BAND-AID!!! Seems this genius didn't know how to properly fire a mortar and had a piece of flak hit him in the arm. Its not like he threw himself on a grenade to save the platoon! Bet yall didn't know that. Also, you talk to the people he served with and see what they have to say about him. He is a traitor, plain and simple. Have yall seen his record in the senate? So far, I'm not very impressed, aside from the fact that he's the most liberal person in the senate.

Bush didn't win any medals. Ok, so? Does that make him less fit to be president?

I agree with yall that we should still be pursuing Osama. I also agree with us going after Saddam. Do yall forget who this man is? He was a threat to the WORLD, not just America. He had the stuff to make WMD back in the early 90's. He claims he doesn't have them anymore, but will not show proof. Why not, Saddam, if you've got nothing to hide? No, we haven't found stockpiles of WMD that we, the general public, know about. Found being the key word. For all we know they could be burried hundred or feet under a mountain of sand! We have found a couple dozen, though, with some chemical agents and parts here and there. That alone is grounds for me. But why wasn't this on CNN or other liberal bias news station. Because its not what they like to air. Also, does anyone know some of the horrible things he and his henchmen did to his own people? Did we forget already that Saddam is a very naughty man? Want more food for thought? Drop me an email if you want a civil, itelligent conversation.

Anyone know the old saying, "The best defense is a good offense." We at not at war because we want to be at war. We're at war because its the right thing to do!

I know what you're saying, "OMG, did he just say something pro-war/pro Bush? Thats not allowed here! BASH HIM!" Yes I am did and I've got two words for you. FU

[AK Guitarist]

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! **==

[AC/DC KING]

hey why should i giv a crap if the US of A is having a election.

[dylan_f1989]

To the person who said Clinton was a great president. Ok, so he's smart. Big deal. What did he do that was so special leading this country?

Ok I think you guys need to read some infomation:
You say Bill Clinton didn't do anything. Well between Reagan and Bush Sr's terms they put tax cuts on the high majority of wealthy people and high taxes to the poor and put a annual deficit of $290 billion per year. When Clinton came into office he reversed the formula and put tax cuts on the lowest wage earners and high taxes on the wealthy and between 1992 and 2000 he put the longest sustained economic expansion and created 18 million jobs for "the people" and also created a surplus of $236 billion. When Bush Jr. came in he brang back the supply side economics princepls that his father used and in one term he turned a $236 billion surplus into a $500 billion deficit. The largest in history of the US.

Seems this genius didn't know how to properly fire a mortar and had a piece of flak hit him in the arm

So does every FUCKING person need to knoe how to fire a weapon. Do they really need to know how to kill a person. If that is so then where raising a new generation of breed which will kill anything for everything.

saddam was a ***nut and he needed to be taken out sometime

Yes, but theres other ways to do that besides sending troops in to kill anyone whos got a beard and looks like a threat. And Bush was so niave that he believed that getting rid of Saddam Hussein would bring peace and love of the USA into the minds of IRAQ.

Yes I am did and I've got two words for you. FU

Um... that two letters. And whats so wrong with say FUCK all you do is caps lock it. See its easy. Just watch me. FUCK you, FUCK this, FUCK me, FUCK BUSH and FUCK war. Whats my favourite swear word? FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK!

[dylan_f1989]

GOD BLESS EVERY OTHER COUNTRY BESIDSE AMERICA!

[dylan_f1989]

BESIDES SORRY TYPO. IT HAPPENS

[dangerouscat]

i could rant for pages about kerry but i'll keep it simple. you only like kerry because he tells you what you want to hear. he cant do ANYTHING that hes promising without taxing the hell out of the public thats the dark side of being a democrat. yeah sure bush is a douche but kerry is a ***in jerk. you call him a war hero? HE FOUGHT IN NAM FOR 9 MONTHS!!! some people who fought in vietnam were there for more than 7 years maybe THEY should be president?

[dangerouscat]

thank you dylan_f1989 for pointing out that FUCK needs to be caps locked

kerry is a FUCKIN douche and so is his running mate john edwards. he cant do SHIT as vice president. for FUCKIN sakes look at dick cheney all he does is have hearst attacks!!!

[dangerouscat]

*heart attacks damn i have fat fingers

[king_cyrus]

why the hell shouldnt god bless america? i live in america, id appreciate being blessed. why cant we all just be blessed equally? and clinton was a good president but if he hadnt stirred up so much shit with his head getting he could have spent more time doing his job than answering FUCKed up nazi interegators questions about his head getting, and he might have gone against bin laden the first two or three or four times he declared war on us. in hindsight that would have been a good idea.

[king_cyrus]

because then he wouldnt have attacked us and what not. because he would be dead or imprisoned somewhere in israel getting sodomized by guards. which isnt good. but neither is terrorism.

[dangerouscat]

wait no thank you dylan youre FUCKIN ignorant we dont want the muslims to like us. the u.s. is spreading democracy like a plague. like the nazis and the commies did, only w/o dictators. a $500 billion maybe the largest deficit in the history of the u.s., but does this look like the great depression? is the government so poor that we cant continue the war in iraq? i guess kerry thought so when he voted against the 81 billion dollar increase to resupply the troops in iraq.

[hobo8917]

good article


and for all of ya'll that express your opinion like "FUCK Bush and screw the war," well I hope you've been keeping up with current events and in the know.

if you're just saying that because it's the "cool" thing to do since all the punk bands are doing it, then i am extremely happy that most of you can't vote yet

[dylan_f1989]

Well it may not be the great depression yet. But soon will be since 3/4 Americans can't even afford health care. And to dangerouscat your the ignorant FUCK who can't even find the deasency to spread friendships with other cultures. Can't you see that not all Muslims are terrorists and not all Muslims come from the Middle East you FUCKHEAD. YOUR THE FUCKIN NAZI WHO SPREADING HIS PROPAGHANDA SAYING THAT THE US DOESN'T WANT THE MUSLIMS TO LIKE HIM. FUCKING HICK. YES THE GOVERNMENT IS IN DENT AND ARE "POOR" WHY DO YOU THINK THEY WANT TO PULL OUT OF IRAQ. NOT BECAUSE THERE FREED THE PEOPLE BECAUSE MONEY IS ASURELY RUNNING OUT. 81 BILLION THAT THEY GOT OUT OF THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACCOUNT WHICH THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO TOUCH.

[dylan_f1989]

eqaul thinking =
who would you rather have as President
Someone who will destroy economy, other countris and people or someone whos a jerk?

and plus kerry might do the samethings as bush but it cant get any worse. and look at the polls everyone. kerry's infront and is climbing.

[AK Guitarist]

So does every FUCKING person need to knoe how to fire a weapon. Do they really need to know how to kill a person. If that is so then where raising a new generation of breed which will kill anything for everything.

When you're in the military you most certainly should!

Um... that two letters. And whats so wrong with say FUCK all you do is caps lock it. See its easy. Just watch me. FUCK you, FUCK this, FUCK me, FUCK BUSH and FUCK war. Whats my favourite swear word? FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK!

I reached the maximum limit of spaces and it cut off the rest of that post. I didn't realise that until just now. Pardon me.

FUCK YOU!

[dylan_f1989]

Why should we have a military. To protect ourselves. All they do is make it worse. Do you relize after the troops leave Iraq were going to be more unsafe then we supposedly were. You think that the Iraqis are going to be ok with us when we killed thousands of innocent Iraqis. We have killed more innocent people in Iraq in like the span of 2 years then Saddam Hussein has and hes been killing since 30 years ago.

[dangerouscat]

dylan you FUCKIN fool. you blame the military for all the country's problems, yet your probably too much of a pussy to join the military. consider yourself lucky you can be american, cuz you wont get these rights in mexico, where most of my heritage comes from. no i am not a mexican, i was not born in mexico, but at least i can say that we dont take kindly to your kind, the super liberal kind. and HOLYSHIT you are gonna sit there and tell me that we're gonna be in more SHIT THAN WE WERE BEFORE WE WENT INTO IRAQ? just because anti flag says it doesnt make it so. and before you sit there and tell me that the US is the bad guy in the war, keep in mind that he gassed thousands of his own people, he ordered the execution of some of his councilmen for his pleasure, and his sons raped and exploited women on an almost daily routine. how many times have we gassed, raped, or executed people for our own pleasure? if you cant learn to at least live with the condition the country is in, then why dont you leave you pussy. punk rock IS dead and youre one of the douchebags (along with NOFX and Anti Flag) who's killing it! why should we learn to live with people who want to kill us? i wouldnt want to be friends with someone while they despised me because my religious beliefs are different than theirs. i guess that makes me a nazi hick, huh? i guess your coward ass wont realize that there IS racism and prejudice in the world, and the only way to stop it is to have one universal religion. THAT is what kreeps me out thats what makes me an athiest.

[dylan_f1989]

dangerouscat

ONE THING THAT ANTI-FLAG SAYS IS DON'T JUST TAKE OUR WORD, MAKE YOUR OWN WORDS. AND THATS WHAT I DO. YOU THINK EVERYTHING I SAY IS A TESTIMONIAL OF WHAT ANTI-FLAG SAYS. YOU MUST RELIZE THAT THERE ARE EDUCATED PEOPLE IN HERE. YOU CALL YOUR SELF AN ATHIEST WHEN YOU SHOULD KNOW YOUR SELF THAT ATHIESTS DON'T PREACH THEIR HATRED FOR RELIGIONS. EVEN IF THEY ARE TO A WRONG CAUSE. WHY AM I A COWARD. CAUSE IM NOT IN THE ARMY. CAUSE I REFUSE TO BE TRAINED TO KILL SOMEONE. ARE YOU IN THE ARMY dangerouscat, IF NOT, WHY? CAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO KILL PEOPLE FOR NOTHING. OR IF YOU ARE THEN WHY? WHAT GOOD DO YOU GET FROM BEING IN THE ARMY.

[wayne69]

dude respect to you for haveing the balls to say something about this.

[Backup Guitar]

^ Thanks, wayne69

good article

and for all of ya'll that express your opinion like "FUCK Bush and screw the war," well I hope you've been keeping up with current events and in the know.

if you're just saying that because it's the "cool" thing to do since all the punk bands are doing it, then i am extremely happy that most of you can't vote yet

That's gotta be the best comment I've seen so far...

[ever and a day]

good article.
i hate bush. but not because of the music i listen to. my opinions were already formed and strong before hating bush became the "cool thing to do" or whatever you guys were talking about. and i DO NOT agree with the war in iraq. a lot of bush and his daddy's friends were trying to promote the war in iraq loooong before dubya got in office. (for details read "weapons of mass deception. i can't remember the what the group was called") and all this talk in the media about bad intelligence is a bunch of bs too. they were getting a lot of their intelligence from a third party. not all of it came from the cia. they just wanted an excuse to invade iraq. bush rushed us into an unnecassary war. and all you conservatives always tell me the same thing. he was a threat to the world and us and he had weapons.(sounds a little bit like us...besides. we gave saddam the weapons in the first place) but thats all you can EVER tell me. it was for our protection..IT DIDNT PROTECT US AT ALL. IF ANYTHING IT PUT US IN MORE DANGER. this war has only caused more hatred towards us in the middle east. its breeding terrorism. not getting rid of it. . all of this money we spent on war could have helped us here in america.
the only reason im ok with kerry is the fact that he served in war.(even though i'm sick of hearing about it) i read all of those comments about how he didn't do anything for his purple hearts and so on.. but i don't really care. hes seen war. and i don't think a man who has had to live it will rush us into something we really don't have to do. and edwards coming from a hard working family probably won't bow down to the fat cats like dubya and dick.
bush has screwed up everything hes ever been in charge of.
yeah..i finished my rant. like i said. good article

[systemetatic]

my post was about a third of what i wanted to post, but this board called me a spammer. I'll post the rest when i get home. thanks, because i just know you appreciate it.

[scumfuc_69]

^^^^Remember when Bush said "find bin laden is our
top priority and we will not stop until we find him"

Later he says, "No, I don't know where bin laden is, and I don't care. He isn't one of our main priorities"

I agree that Saddam needed to be taken out. Forget the WMDs, there weren't any. He was not a direct threat to
the US and it's not our responsibility to remove him.
Iraq is on top of the world's 2nd largest oil reserve.
The largest oil reserve in the world is under Saudi Arabia, who played the biggest role in 9/11 and mnay other things, but they get off scot-free.
How ***ed-up is that?

[warped girl 75]

yall'r pretty much tards...do you hear yourselves? i've been to a couple of concerts...and i see some of yall smokin...so don't be sayin' shit about bush smokin and partyin...id much rather have someone in the prez seat whoz done that stuff than lets say gore who has never done drugs...yall'r a bunch of hypocrits...and bush has been to war ya tards...i went to warped tour and was so happy cause i saw bunches of FUCK kerry signs...and whats this crap i hear of yall hate prez bush...you'd rather have a freggin' tree huggin' lets not blow their asses out of the water prez who let the world trade centers get attacked TWICE while in presidency...i think some of yall were high when yall commented on this...and i guess some of yall's parents aren't in the army...so you dont kno how bad it wuz for us when that little crap they call clinton was prez...so just keep yalls comments to urselves...cause yall'r just mad that bush is prez and not gore...kerry is just gonna turn this country into a communist nation...and lets see how yall take it when us rebubs talk about kerry if he is elected prez...

[scumfuc_69]

One more thing. I don't believe they thought Saddam already had WMDs, I think they were just worried that
he was trying to get them. So we go bomb them, and
bomb them while they're asleep, like a stab in the back from a coward.
North Korea has admitted having a nuclear weapons program but Bush seems too afraid to go after them...
he just tries to "talk" with them. But not with Iraq,
he told Saddam to turn over weapons or we'd attack.
Hmmm....makes one wonder.
But don't get me wrong, Saddam is a ***ing nut!!!

[scumfuc_69]

Warped Girl, you are warped in in the head.
I don't think either Bush or Kerry are qualified.
I don't know who is, but they're not. I think some of
us would rather live in a communism instead of a
police state if those were the only 2 options, but
both are bad.
And I think you're high, or just a dumb kid...you need
to pay more attention in English class because your
spelling is terrible.

[ever and a day]

you'd rather have a freggin' tree huggin' lets not blow their asses out of the water prez.
yeah...i guess i would. im not one for murder, and i would like to keep the environment clean. what can i say.

[AK Guitarist]

Ya know, in a way, I almost hope that Kerry gets elected, just so I can watch yall bitch when he screws us all over. Yall will be singing a totally different tune when Kerry takes away your freedoms, one by one.

This country needs a wake up call! Shame it might have to be something like this.

[scumfuc_69]

^^AK, it's possible you may be right, but Bush has
already taken freedoms away (here & overseas). Ever
read the Patriot Act? Noticed a lot of states are
passing laws so the Patriot Act isn't enforced in their
states (unless the feds step in), because they find
it too harsh?

[king_cyrus]

scumfuc have u ever read the patriot act? it really doesnt say anything it just changes a bunch of other laws. and most of the democrats in congress, including kerry, voted for the patriot act. kerry should go on less about his 9 months in vietnam and more about his 20 years in the senate, because 20 years is a little bit more of his life than 9 months.

[tremontifan]

ever and a day,what's this talk about intelligence coming from third parties? it's fully documented that 9/11 was a result of a massive intelligence screw-up within the bureaucracy of the CIA, it's all in the report that the 9/11 commission released. and by the way, edwards is a fat cat lawyer. and on the subject of taxes, the rich pay a proportionately larger percentage than the poor do,so naturally the tax cuts give them a break. they still end up paying more. and another interesting factoid: bush owns one piece of property, his ranch. he pays about $250,000 in taxes. kerry owns three mansions and pays less than $100,000. wtf?

[Backup Guitar]

Okay, you guys are just a bunch of idiots.

You don't know a thing about politics, so shut up and try learning something.

[Klown]

I'd dedicate my grammy to Ralph Nader... Fuck Kerry, he's just a tiny bit better then Bush.

[Microchips]

So we go bomb them, and
bomb them while they're asleep, like a stab in the back from a coward

so your saying that Bush should have let them get weapons of mass destruction then attack them so that more soldiers die, but at least its a fair fight.

But i guess all those suicide bombers and hi-jackers were fighting fair killing civilians

[tremontifan]

Okay, you guys are just a bunch of idiots.

You don't know a thing about politics, so shut up and try learning something.

and who's going to teach us? you, mr. liberal?

[mtvgetofftheair]

i thought this article brought up a great point: who else better to express themself (especially i political matters) than a musician?

[shut_up_and_die]

....damn.....just had to go and start a political debate...
First off, everyone needs to take a deep breath and stop hyperventalating. Bush and the Republicans are not psychos bent on taking over the world. That would be waaaay more trouble than it's worth. Kerry and the Democrats are not commies bent destroying everything that is right with the world.

If I were you, I would not give anymore credit to the likes of Michael Moore or Al Franken than I would to Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh...

To the writter of this article...Hey look! Your bias is showing! We HAVE TO agree with you that Bush is a terrible leader, and that we invaded Iraq illegally?...hmm...seems to me that the UN told Mr. Hussein that he had to let inspectors in, or else we'd take him out (Resolution 1441)...the UN wasn't about to enfore it, for their own reasons (anyone heard of the Oil-for-food scandal? Look it up!)

Oh yeah, as long as we're on the topic of the Iraq war, EVERYONE

[shut_up_and_die]

...heh sorry, hit enter on accident....anyway, carring on...

EVERYONE thought that Iraq was a danger, not just Bush and Co.

Hmm...I think I'm just about done tho...my point is....umm....POLITICS ARE STUPID.

Maybe I'll think of more stuff to say later...pizza's here...

So Hooray for me....and FUCK YOU

[warped girl 75]

The_Last_Rebel7:
VOTE BUSH

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

oh scumfuc...i actually attend a very prestigious high school here in the south so dont tell me i don't know how to spell...k sweety? GREEEEEEEEEAT

i have had it with this aticle...it was a waste of my time and most of all of yours...we all got our britches in a wad...and i think we all need to hug and make up...breath in....breath out...there...isn't that better?

you kno what they say...two things you dont talk about in the south...politics and religion and it was okay for us to go into the middle east...for osama...not to change their ways of life and make them be like us...we have overstayed our uninvited welcome in iraq and think we need to just pull out...

[king_cyrus]

the UN wasn't about to enfore it, for their own reasons

the un didnt need to enforce it, because saddam did let the inspectors in. htey were there for like a month and we told them to leave because we were gonna bomb iraq anyway

[Backup Guitar]

To the writter of this article...Hey look! Your bias is showing! We HAVE TO agree with you that Bush is a terrible leader, and that we invaded Iraq illegally?...hmm...seems to me that the UN told Mr. Hussein that he had to let inspectors in, or else we'd take him out (Resolution 1441)...the UN wasn't about to enfore it, for their own reasons (anyone heard of the Oil-for-food scandal? Look it up!)

Of course my bias is showing. But I still stand by the fact I'm doing a better job at this than most idiots who are commenting.

And hey, of course the war was illegal. They bombed Iraq while ignoring the U.N. for ignoring the U.N. Makes a lot of sense to me, don't it?

If China were the ones that invaded Iraq illegally, you'd all be seeing this different.

[fuel13]

i cant even vote...............that sucks

[darkstar9814]

great article- 6 stars

[Hellraizer31990]

Good point AK guitarist and good point dangerouscat...
i like to listen to sum punk becuz of sound not becuz of politics...how can anyone like kerry he goes to one place and says whatever makes them happy then goes sumwhere else and says the exact opisite to make them hppy...who give a shit about spelling and typing on a forum like this its not an english repot sheesh

[Hellraizer31990]

lot of the media is liberal...and that 9/11 ,ovie alot of stuff on that movie as been proven lies...sry to break it too you liberals, i know you'll still find a way to deny it just like pretty much all liberals...they agree with everything democrats say no matter what(well mostly, can't speak for all)

[sicklecow]

Not a bad article. To whoever it was that made that comment about the author's bias showing: Hello! How can any article not containing bias spark political debate? Somebody has to make initial points for people to rebut or support, and who better than the author? That being said, I am so glad that I can't vote in this election. I despise the war in Iraq so much. It was illegal and unnecessary, and misleading to the American people. However, I also can't stand how Kerry constantly alters his politically based AND MORALLY BASED opinions.

[SixStringForEmo]

Yeah.

Kerry won three purple hearts and two other medals in a war that he ultimately opposed, because he actually fought in it.

Bush won NO medals in a war he ultimately supported, because other people fought in it.

I guess Bush must be the better guy...

pretty wise dude
its good ur not asamed to voice ur opinion when its not popular
wait..........isnt that what punks all about

[VelvetÆnema33]

Very bias thing indeed... The thing that upsets me about most music that is made. Is only bush bashing. The reason why alot of people say they don't have any credibility is because they say nothing in their music to back up what they believe. Greenday's American Idiot is a prime example of this.

free_iraq:
bush is a gimp end of story. but he'll stay on as president because he'll rig the election like last time. just watch fahrenheit 11/9

Any idiot that believes a massive propaganda movie by an extreme left wing activist is un-educated and ignorant. Sure some of it was true. But it was just a one sided documentery to sway people in his direction. And yes Bush didn't win majority vote... but the electoral system was meant so the majority vote didn't get the guy in office. Otherwise NY, FL, and CA. Would be electing all the presidents. And how could they possibly know how people in like ND feel about everything?

Yeah.

Kerry won three purple hearts and two other medals in a war that he ultimately opposed, because he actually fought in it.

Bush won NO medals in a war he ultimately supported, because other people fought in it.

I guess Bush must be the better guy...

No one like to say that he commited war crimes in a way he supposevly didn't support. Sadly enough he admited to burning down viliages and killing everyone in them... Oops? Didn't think that would come back to haunt him... I just wan