Punk Is Dead: Round Two

Before I start on this article, I would like to correct one thing many people are mistaken about. Punk rock and punk are two very different things. People who don't understand this, should not talk, because their logic is fundamentaly flawed if it is based on that. Here are some basic facts that you should know are true before you learn why punk is dead:

1. Punk rock and punk are not that same
2. Punk rock is a music genre
3. Punk is a subculture
4. The punk subculture preceeded any making of punk rock

Now, I will go into the various factors that lead to the extinction of punk.

1. The Political Cause:

In America, punk was a political movement against the Reagan administration. In Britian, it was against Margerate Thatcher. Nothing more, nothing less. It was not anti-authority. It was not be yourself. And, most importantly, it was not anarchism. I will get into that soon. Anyway, once Reagan left office, the movement aspect of the subculture became obsolete. And no, punk did not "evolve". Punk was never meant to last forever, so it never changed when it's cause became useless. It died.

Anarchy:

Anarchy has absolutely nothing to do with the punk subculture, except that some people apart of the culture claimed anarchism. Anarchism is the type of government, which is basically, a lack of government. It is a utopia, a nowhere. Anarchy will never happen, humans by nature need authority, and it is horribly nieve for anyone to think humans living in peace is possible. I believe the author of the "Punk is definetely not dead" author commented on how he does not want a government controlling him. Well, let's face it bud, we need it.

2. Shock Factor:

If you could identify the most fundamental driving force of the punk movement, it would be shock factor. In fact, this is one of the very few things the subculture had in common with punk rock, both were driven by shock factor. The only way this subculture could be noticed (or be sold) was to have a gimmic. The thing is, shock factor only lasts so long. It is only surprising for a while before it becomes normal.

3. Rules:

This brings us to the biggest contradiction in the punk subculture, and arguably, the one that lead to it's downfall. Like any subculture, you have to have a certain backround before you can claim anything. You have to dress a certain way, hold certain views, come from certain places, and often listen to certain music. Punk was never about non-conformity in the sense that as long as you don't care what anybody thinks, you are punk. If you think that is ALL it's about, you could not be more wrong. Or atleast, not be "punk". The thing is folks, punk sells. Punk sells well. Clothes and fashion manufacturers took advantage of this, they started a generation of rich kids claiming to be hardcore. But that can't be. You can't have someone be anti-Reagan, when they are basically the manifestation of everything Reagan stood for. Same for our friends across the pond. So, punk had to have guidlines, things that made you punk and not. But the subculture by nature only had aspects that made you punk, not things that didn't make you punk. This was a change, one that punk couldn't make.

So, that is why punk is dead. It is not because the music is crappy (All music taste is relative), or because of Hot Topic (people are posers, not stores), or even because Sid Vicious is dead (I will get into the stupidity of that later). Now, As I have been reading some of people's posts, I would like to clear up some various issues as well.

Punk Rock.

When I say punk is dead, I mean the subculture, not the genre. The genre is nothing but a style of music, and no matter how much it is abused, it cannot die.

The Sex Pistols.

I really hate to insult your "liek favrit punx rawk bnad", but The Sex Pistols, especially Siddy boy, were not punk. The only reason The Sex Pistols were ever signed was to market pants, that's all. Not very hardcore, are we? The Sex Pistols can more appropriately be described as one of the first sell-out bands.

Hot Topic.

People seem to think shopping at Hot Topic makes you a poser. But, I can't really understand how that can logically be true. I repeat, people are posers, not stores. If you go buy a Sex Pistols jacket and go around saying how hardcore you are because of it. Then yes, we have a minor problem. But if you go and buy a studded belt, say, because they are the fashion, not because you think they will make you hardcore, I fail to see anything wrong with that.

POSTED: 01/14/2004 - 07:44 am

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Comments

[Jerkee]

Great article! Nice buddy! :cheers:

Exactly my thoughts, I just could never point them out so well

[simonparry]

i agree with that 1 gud article

[change_needed]

meh, very meh. enough is enough.

[Geldof the Grey]

[size=150,000,000]DROP IT!!![/size]

Have I made myself clear?

[frigginjerk]

i'm not even reading this one. NO MORE PUNK IS DEAD / PUNK ISN'T DEAD ARTICLES!!!

[marijnnijs]

yeah, it's a good article,

frigginjerk, i'm waiting for one of your fine articles!! :;

[frigginjerk]

^

chekc the main page, dude! it's called "Things We Could All Do Without"

[V12]

Very good essay.All your points are proven as well as your topic. I find it hard to believe that anyone could possibly disagree with this article, besides, of course, having people bash you with a grammatically horrifying response with no real valiud argument, or saying "punk isn't dead" in all caps. Very nice job.

[Radray990]

very very nice article! well thought out. all the punks say "we need anarchy and to live in peace" and all that crap, but lets face it: it isn't going to happen.

and yes, the part about the sex pistols is true.. their manager owned a store in london called "the sex shop" and needed a bunch of dirty white kids to promote bondage gear... the whole idea of punk subculture has been a joke from the beginning. people think im not punk because i dont dress like one, but i listen to lots of punk bands like sham 69, the business, the ramones, stiff little fingers, etc.

[teabag]

dah!! good article

[*Truly Ninja*]

could someone please write an article without using the personal pronoun "I" in it?

Other than that, good article!

[nickdaddy]

question--do you consider glen matlock to be a punk since he left the pistols because they were going against the the very things they preached? i think he deserves better than ***ing sid, since he was both an original member, and an actual musician.

[garagerocker69]

holy ***. people can think wat they want to think. no more articles. no1 gives a shit if u think punk is/isnt dead. it gets way too many arguments going. personally, i like punk. but then again, im not the voice of the world, so i have no right to say punk is/isnt dead. i can think that, but its stupid to write a ***en article on it. also, punk isnt about any of those things. read the comments on the other punk articles before writing a ***en front page column

[x_xburntheflagx]

Anarchy is not a type of government .Anarchy is a political philosophy that advocates the abolition of an orgainized stse as the ruling government.Its advocates believe that individuals should be free to organize themselves in ways that best enable them to fulfill their needs and ideals.........PUNK IS NOT DEAD......look around the subculture is not gone and it never will be.

[FJM2C]

Two things:

1)Punk is not dead

2)NO MORE PUNK IS (OR ISNT) DEAD ARTICLES!!!

[x_xburntheflagx]

yeah i agree and who are you to say that punk is dead anyway.

[runefan88]

there is a difference between punk and punk rock, but who gives u the right to write an article like this.

[Man Made Errer]

Nicely written, although I can't say I agree with everything.

[Shifty08]

Yeah, get over it allready. You've allready writtin 1 artical, leave it at that. As long as people still listen to Punk/Punk Rock it will never be dead. Now, please dont write another artical.

[Shifty08]

There must be better things to do with your time then sit at a computer writing articles about hows Punk is dead. I agree with garagerocker, do want you want, listen to what you want. No one cares.

[harm0n20]

why the hell would u waste time on writing an article on somthing like this???? who ***in gives a shit if punk is/is not dead? people can listen to what they want to listen to.

[AsydBarRetT]

well at least we cleared that up.....but you spent VERY little time describing the bands......i mean you did a little piece on the pistols but why not th clash (i personally dont consider them punk) or the ramones

[issidvicious]

i can't believe people still give a *** whether it's dead or not...it's personal opinion so stop forcing it down other people's throats and shut the *** up.

[less than that]

eh, i really don't care anymore so i'm not gonna read it. thanks for you time and effort tho

[n_punx]

articles like this are dumb. it may be dead in your opinion but not someone else. give up and start writing on other articles. if punk is really really dead as u claimed then we would all be posting "huh??? what is punk???". theres no right or wrong answer to what is punk so theres no way u can tell when its dead.

[BigAndyW]

Why is it that although he explained perfectly well that he wasn't talking about music, all you idiots are saying "Duh it's not dead I listen to it!!" Don't post comments if you haven't read the article, kiddies.

n_punx: 'if punk is really really dead as u claimed then we would all be posting "huh??? what is punk???"' Er, no we wouldn't. I know about things that don't exist anymore/are dead.. Do you automatically forget everything that's not in fashion or something?

[koreazz7]

i agree, punk is dead, but punk rock will live to fight another day

[KerPlunk]

These articles are ***en more dead than punk ever will be so stop posting them you posing whores.

[cedrics_mic]

This is ***ing stupid!
One of your many innumerable ammendments or constitution allows enables you to free speech so author can write what they like.

Second of all, Anarchy is not Utopia, the 'punk' subculture might have thought so but the fact that they were anti-government explains this, it's a period of chaos between governments etc...

I couldn't really give a *** about whether or not punk is dead or what it is I just wish these articles would stop being written, especially to the point where they're one-sided and petty.

[SchecterAxer182]

Let it the FU

[SchecterAxer182]

Let it ***ing GO

[whyvern]

Punk lives only in the 3rd world

[ANGELofDARKNESS]

this was an interesting article.it actually made me think...

[Epid3mic]

Thanks for the comments, good and bad. The good to feed my ever growing ego, and the bad to fuel my superiority complex.

I just want to ask one question, to the people who supposedly don't care for my article. If you hate and/or could care less about this subject, why do you read my article, let alone post a comment?

BTW cedric, I know that anarchy is not utopia, but I was using "utopia" in the original sense of the word, "nowhere".

[sugar_free87]

who the f**k said that punk is dead..have you visited the whole world to make sure if there are no more punks around?..youre articles are bull sh*t..dude write about somehthing else not politics..man this is a music site..
oh and one more thing punk isnt dead...!!hahahahaaa

[guitar_freak523]

must we have ever 2 articles about punk being dead or not being dead

[Bong Water]

regardless of how many theres been, i think this is a well written and thought out article. i like this as rather than just an outright 'punk is dead/punk isnt dead - get over it' comment that so many halfwits seem to spew out here, this actually goes into it and clears up WHAT punk is and why the idealism behind it doesnt work anymore. I believe this needs to be said as so many people are caught up in the routine and rules that seem to abide them by their 'punk' lifestyle. I know too many who adopt the image and believe that theyre living for everything that the '70s meant. So, yes if we had many more of these articles, we would have an extreme problem. But for too long the argument of punk being dead or not has been raging on, and pointlessly. Thanks buddy for, in my eyes, putting some closure to it.

[Bong Water]

id also like to add that a lot of people that have commented here, names of which ill refrain from referring to, havent read this properly. The article wasnt about how many punks there are the world... It was about the principles and the idealisms behind punk, not actual 'punks'.

[Hevoc]

I like this. Make me thinkm mutch. well i dont listen to mutch punk.

[emokid182]

Writing articles like this is pointless. Your not going to change anybody's mind by writing this. People are going to think what they want regardless.

[Geldof the Grey]

To the writer, who commented that if I didn't care, I would not have read this column: I feel very involved in UG's columns and don't like to see dumb articles posted which do not reflect the high standard of columns I would like to read.

I don't discriminate against articles just because their title is of a certain subject. I may have found that you raised interesting points, but you didn't. SO I hate it...

[just some guy]

ummm....that was a horibbly fuzzy article to me. I didn't really understand it...totally...or..like..
.at all...I think we should drop the punk subject because no one wants to hear about it, the end. it wasn't a bad article, but i think we should all just let go and go on with our lives and not try to determine what's punk and what's not.

[Tuxedo Man]

Uhhhhhhhhhh

[182degrees]

*** off, stop wiv these stupid ***in articles

[ShatteredGlass]

I bought punk at Hot Topic. It said so. You can't tell otherwise. I'm sorry I can't be perfect ok?

[autumsbitterend]

your retarded, if you arnt punk dont try to understand stupid moron you dont get it so dont write about us!**** off!

[darkgriffin]

Ya, that version of punk is dead. But I guess a new version has arised. Like you said, the original hasn't changed. That one died long ago. But it's spawned off a new version of punk. Kind of a... neo-punk you might say. The new version is based around anarchism and self-reliance (which I don't mind at all and I strongly believe it should be a part of our community) unlike the old version that was more like a rebellion. Let's just try to end this punk is/isn't dead stuff. And really, why didn't you clear all this up in the first place?

[towelman]

Anarchy is stupid. You support anarchy. You are stupid.

[Whiskey Leech]

one more punk article and im gonna break down

[onlyonehere]

This article is awful. This debate is old and over-done.

[KashmiR]

Get over it pansies, punk is dead and has been for a while. So..the best thing to do is to think of the bands u like now as 'boy bands with guitars.'

[Brandnewlow]

What the hell are you talking about, punk was a political movement against reagan. Punk started in the late 70's, with bands like the ramones. They could barely play their instruments, and could still compete with bands like aerosmith and kiss. To me thats punk. They showed that you didn't have to be an insane guitarist, amazing drummer, etc. to be in a band. They started a revolution in music. There wouldn't have even been the "punk movement" in the 80's without bands like the ramones in the 70's.

[nasty_santa409]

^^

yeah, well said.

[punxlives]

*** you the i agree a little bit because the music genere pop/punk is ***in up street/gutter punks image & shit also pop punk making underground punx look gay

[politicsNpunk]

goddamn, do you people just like to argue about stupid stuff. THIS TOPIC could not have been done anymore. All these are for is for the punks to argue with the metal heads. We think punk lives, they don't...that all weve astablished since the very first post on this, wow such progress.

[politicsNpunk]

And I didnt bother reading all these posts, but PUNK has a purpose again, we call it the BUSH ADMINISTRATION, you think reagon was bad, why dont you learn about our new "leader" and then get back to me on this "Punk has no more meaning" crap.

[Oswald]

I totally agree with "humans need someone to control them"
Because we do!!!
I have always said it.
Humans are evil and deep down, we enjoy destruction and death.

[XeonicusX]

*plants tongue firmly in cheek* PUNK IS NOT DEAD!

[chizeers]

This Article is one of the best i have ever read. Punk is an immature excuse to b**ch about something. I compare punks to my little brother,the little "You cant tell me what to do" attitude. You pointed out a lot of things that I always wanted to say. Not everyone is perfect,if they were anarchy could work,but there are people out there that are just crazy.Without a goverment, what would happen to hospitals and schools? Almost every country(I think)would just fall apart.And for the people who think that no one has the authority to write about this,I dont see why you dont just ignore it.If you hate these articles so much, dont read them.

[fadingtoblack22]

Hmm... for all the people saying "we don't need anymore articles like this", they seem to like to follow with "Punk isn't dead" shortly after. Great job fueling the fire guys... I guess, with all the nice little comments you've made here, we DO need more articles like this to settle it (natural law-like argument, anyone? absolute right/truth? yes, I think so)...

Great article though. It's good to see someone putting time and effort into a debate that has, in article standpoint, been somewhat intelligent in nature. I applaud you for that much...

And I agree (God bless ya for the greek definition, too).

[hilary.ous]

Punk came along before Reagan and Thatcher. The Clash, arguably the most political of punk bands, came along while the labour party was in office. Anarchism was a part of the early subculture- the MC5, and later the Sex Pistols, had a whole following of punks who believed in anarchy.

[XstraightXedgeX]

FUCK ANYONE WHO THINKS PUNK IS DEAD. IT WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND.... PUNK IS MORE THAN MUSIC ITS A WAY OF LIFE... PUNKS ARE THE ONLY KIDS BEING THERE SELVES, AND HARDCORE IS THE SECOND WAVE OF PUNK... HOW COULD U THINK ITS DEAD WHEN ITS LIVING AROUND AND IN EVERYONE OF US!!

[XstraightXedgeX]

your oponions are ***ed up... and u might prove your point but change your articles name to punk rock is dead... you *** up

[Brandnewlow]

"punk was a movement against the reagan administration"
Umm ... Are you saying anyone who went against reagan is punk? In that case, john cougar melencamp was punk, along with bruce springstein ...

[fascist d]

i totally agree with brandnewlow

i also think punk can evolve. i mean, why can't punk have changed to be against different administrations now? (like the dubya mess) in fact, punk may not be dead...it's just resting.

[Oswald]

XstraightXedgeX is ***ed in the head!
He is pathetic!
He still think it is alive!!!
Times change, either you like it or not.
Time is like a hurricane, when it rushes by it ***s up everything.

[zakk_wylde4]

someone please tell me, is emo punk/punk rock or whatever? give me the low down

[perfec_circl]

I thought it was an ok article. 4 stars!

[Xenophus]

Shutup

[Kai-7]

Truth is, its been bastardized. It doesnt mean what it used to mean. Very good article. Im not from the US , anyway..but.. if it was started to go against Reagan , mebbeu guys should start sth tp go against Bush? *hides* btw, I didn't read most of the rants and raves...but at least Steve JOnes KNEW how to play the guitar .. sure it ain't studded with solos and all, but there is a certain amount of technique in his playing.. cheerz.

[x_xburntheflagx]

i think that they guy who wrote this article should be cast into the firey pit of death for writting this article that means absolutely no sense and everybody who agrees with it is now dumber and may their god have mercy on there poor soul.

[Antichrist_666]

listen to "Punks not dead" by Darren Hanlon, he is right

[flip]

Who the hell cares anymore.

[x_xburntheflagx]

or listen to "punk's not dead" by THE EXPLOITED.........they are right!!

[rawfer]

quote:
politicsNpunk:
A
nd I didnt bother reading all these posts, but PUNK has a purpose again, we call it the BUSH ADMINISTRATION, you think reagon was bad, why dont you learn about our new "leader" and then get back to me on this "Punk has no more meaning" crap.
[POSTED: 17 January 2004 - 12:28]|

amen to that.

[punkisdead66]

This article makes perfecr sense.Fuck you retards that are saying to stop writing articles like this because its what youre supposed to write about-MUSIC-retards! this article does have a pupose .by the way its a great article

[Emenius Sleepus]

it'd be a good article, but god damn and never let bring back the "punk" themes on this site unless they are directly related to guitar playing. (I don't mean "their playing sux" debate, but proper articles)

[punksnafu]

aw *** u dude, who ***ing cares

[evilminded]

In some cases you are very right but we have a new leader... try and prove that the subculture died...haha its back. Stop being such an untidy little fascist and open your eyes

[xgirlsetsfirex]

punk isn't dead...the name has been exploited...i dont really care everyone has their own opinion, and thats just mine.

[gryftorsguitar]

punk the culture was made for people against authority, not against the president. however, it has been changed to a style overtime. so maybe the original punk lifestyle is dead, but the new one lives on. i think it it punk rock that died. it was here for 15 years then it turned into genres like grunge. show me a good punk band in the last 5 years. punk music needs to be brought back

[punksNOTdead]

ok you ***k ups. Ill agree on one thing. punk is different from punk rock. punk is NOT DEAD. punk rock isnt either, it just sucks now. and punk was slang for a delinquent. it was not giving a **ck. u were your own person, you were punk. still is now. it u are a little juvenile delinquent, you are punk. and if u think punk is just going against the president, then there will always be punk, seeing as there is ALWAYS someone that hates the president!!

even though i COMPLETELY DISAGREE, your article was nicely written. but maybe u should put those arguing skills to good use and fight a battle u can win...




punk will never be dead

[PunxNotDead7688]

Dude your the 1st person who knows what they are talking about

[Jeremy1054]

screw punk and everything associated with it.

[myusername]

hey dude good article but did u actually go out and study this stuff?!?!

[AFI Punk]

those who say that they are punk are not. anyone can say they are punk but a punk is a person who has those views of the subculture of punk. and currently there "punk" and "punkrock" are the in thing. it is trendy and cool. but as with all fads, it will past with time. skateboarding and everything associated with it was the cool thing for a year or two. everyone and their dog had skateboards and merchandise. but now people have moved on to punk and punkrock. just give it time.

[jacstarnes]

i love punk rock...and i could only wish to call myself a real punk..but the lines are so blurred and defined at the same time that i dont think its worth trying to be called something i know im really not...and i wonder how many of these kids who say they are real punks...know that punk was originally the name for someone who gave head in prison for ciggs. and its what they called nazi biker gangs that raped little boys..yeah...you may like the music and dress the way they used to...but youre worse than a poser...in the end your an ignorant bastard child with way to much time on your hands

[TiMaRmStRoNg101]

the sex pistols were signed to market pants? wow. hmm, why did they sing anarchy in the UK then.. like if they wanted anarchy, then there would be no government to give them the money for the pants franchise... weeeirrrddd

[capsfan17]

good article but the only thing is the whole poser issue is these kids who wear studded belts claim that their punx, their hardcore and they are outcasts, face it, this is the new abercrombie and fitch

[crackdaddycaine]

cant we all just get along and be accepted? i miss the love

[Banned4life]

Um regan wasn't our only us presiden, so we dont have to just rebel against him. Plus you say punk wasnt made to last, i think thats wrong, it's humanity that wasn't made to last

[guitardude72565]

punk is stupid

[JenJen]

who the f uck are you to say if the sex pistols are punk or not? its a f ucking matter of opinion

[cantbuymelove]

LOL
Punk = Dead ( there are a few remaining, lost cause though, unless they just want to be dicks, that also counts )
Nice, Very Nice Article.

[ivyguitarist]

one word....GARBAGE

[----{XAK}----]

I agree with crackdaddycaine, "Cant we all just get along and be accepted?... i miss the love" Yes i would say the Punk look is dead but Punk Rock will live forever! Punk is rock/Metal is rock/Same purpose same people making both! WE GOTTA STICK TOGTHER! Kill tha Pop money machines!

[rawk_n_roller22]

Punk rock has been blown out of proportian by the pop-punk pussies. WE NEED TO TAKE BACK WHAT'S OURS!

[mandito]

punk isnt dead unless your deaf. U just gotta find the good oldies, like the kkk stole my baby away, (Ramones), or Ruby Soho (rancid) or anarchy in the UK (sex pistols) so the new stuff is shit, leave it to the posers to listen and appreciate the oldies

[Guitar_Grrl]

Great punk bands are dead b/c a lot of them wouldn't sell out. Pop punk is not PUNK..so I agree with you that Punk is dead. I'm not celebrating that fact, more like mourning it. Punk attitudes are still very much alive. Young people across the country can't stand the Bush administration and campaign against him, so that attitude is very much alive.

[irish lamma]

great article I agree 100%

[ikthiuz]

that really shits me,
your whole thing on the sex pistols was wrong as buggery. a) there manager never owned a sex shop. b)SELL OUT BAND!?! what the hell, they are one of the few bands that never did sell out, thats why they only lasted 26 months, because they didn't so what they were told and know producers wanted them. c) the sex pistols were not die hard punks, however they did define the dress style and the music. they aided the punk movement by making them heard and the dress was defined by the slumlike conditions they were forced to live in at the time, they wore what they could afford and what they could find in the dumps. d) sid vicious was a faggot and i want him dead, he gave a bad name to the pistols and destroyed the band. the political movement is dorment, the dress, music and beliefs are still alive. punk is definitely not dead it has just gone to bed.

[ikthiuz]

scratch "i want him dead" and replace it with "i want his corpse dug up and scattered to the four corners of the globe"...and i know there can't be corners on a globe for you faggots who wanna pick at the technical crap. i hate your kind. punk is not a matter of opinion and anyone who prides themselves on being a punk certainly isn't one. if you try to look like a punk your just conforming to the "now punk" and ya gay

[scumfuc_69]

From what I understand (this may be wrong) the pyramid
studded accessories, bondage accessories, etc. were
originally sold in underground fetish stores (and still
are) and in the early days punks wore them in public
as sort of an "anti-fashion." Most (but not all) people
who wear them today are the ones who are trying too
hard to be something they're not.
The author of this biased column doesn't know much more
about punk than what he's seen on TV or read in magazines, and possibly some bad examples from poseuers
he's met personally; otherwise he'd know the punk
culture isn't dead. Also, I (and a lot of punks) are
into some of the more poilitical stuff...reason is that if you're going to ignore politics and not
stand up for something, you may as well just let someone make your decisions for you. The so-called
"fashion" doesn't really mean much. Even metal bands
and alternative bands expirimented with the
style of dress that was popluarized by punks. There are
still many good punk bands still around. For example,
the Exploited, the Feederz, the Adicts, Broken Bones,
the Anti-Nowhere League, plus many more are still touring and making music. And if they've sold out to
get where they are, how come none of those bands get
the credit they deserve, and it seems many of you who
claim to be "experts" don't even know who these bands
are, which is a sad thing if you say you're into punk.

[scumfuc_69]

Oh yeah....only the irresponsible and stupid
people need someone to control them.
I think the only laws we need are laws to
protect people against murder and rape.
Stealing is OK as long as you only steal from
large nation-wide reatil outlets and other
big companies.
Other than that, no laws are really needed
except for stupid people with no self-control.

[GuiTarPlaYnPunK]

Stealing is OK as long as you only steal from
large nation-wide reatil outlets and other
big companies.

or you dont get caught

[GuiTarPlaYnPunK]

Great article~!...I read it again. LMAO :Cheers:

[strigoi_vii]

[distortedlife]

the thing i dont ***in get is y the hell are people talkin shit a bout punk we never started shit about rap or metal...ect.ect. .........so why is everyone ***in startin shit a bout punk?!?!?!?!? besides if ppl dont like punk y do they even bother to complain about it

[Pantsless dude]

First of all I would like to say nice try, but you are obviously blindend by today's capitalist society.

1. Punk is a subculture pointing out the problems in: politics and sofort. Which can never die because greed and selfimprovement will always cause problems concerning politics. You must no be from this planet if you think there are no problems under the Bush government, every american was brilliantly brainwashed and not knowing they let their get away with a diplomatic scandal. Punk protest against the flaws in politics. You silly american could never understand.

2. The punk-is-dead idea is an idea origined from the roots of capitalisme, making you believe that there is no alternative, forcin you to become a corporate slave. The more people wanting to work for corporate america give them the opportunit to cut in salarys of them who already do work for them. All capitalisme does is make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Punk stands for equality.

3. The only reason anarchy will not work is because
a) mankind is not ready for it
b) you've all been indoctrinated in world of so called democracy, you do not believe in an alternative
c) power is nothing without abuse, the men who the power now will never agree to a world of equality, for their abuse will no longer be tolerated.
so anarchy could only be achieved by a revolution, which is still waiting to come in more civil and intelligent society.

[Pantsless dude]

First of all, I would like to say nice try, but you are obviously blindend by today's capitalist society.

1. Punk is a subculture pointing out the problems in: politics and sofort. Which can never die because greed and selfimprovement will always cause problems concerning politics. You must not be from this planet if you think there are no problems under the Bush government, every american was brilliantly brainwashed and without knowing they let their democraticly elected leader get away with a diplomatic scandal. Punk protests against the flaws in politics. You silly americans could never understand.

2. The punk-is-dead idea is an idea origined from the roots of capitalisme, making you believe that there is no alternative, forcing you to become a corporate slave. The more people wanting to work for corporate america give them the opportunity to cut in salaries of them who already do work for them. All capitalisme does is make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Punk stands for equality.

3. The only reason anarchy will not work is because
a) mankind is not ready for it
b) you've all been indoctrinated in world of so called democracy, you do not believe in an alternative
c) power is nothing without abuse, the men who have the power now will never agree to a world of equality, for their abuse will no longer be tolerated.
so anarchy could only be achieved by a revolution, which is still waiting to come in more civil and intelligent society.

(Less writing errors in this one.)

[Trenchcoat]

I believe this is the best "punk is dead" article I have ever read in my entire life. Even though I still strongly disagree with you, congratulations on writing a good supported article. I also like your "people are posers, not stores" concept.

[SinnsykEvig6550]

i strongly agree with you, cheers. i think anarchy would be great if people could handle it, and that would be great, but mankind sucks and could never live without someone to kick its ass when it screws up. very sad, but true. i hate the government, but theres nothing i can do. i can live with that. im a metal person myself, and i do shop at hot topic, im very different from a lot of my peers however
1. my peers here in Cincinnati, all posers, shop at hot topic because its "cool", but in fact that makes it very preppy and trendy.
2. i shop there because i like some of the clothes there, i dont even dress punk, i happen to like average clothes, but a studded belt or some cool hair dye is always cool. i play in a garage rock band, so were very odd. the guitarist and i commonly wear collared shirts and i have a big pea coat(commonly worn by women) that i wear in winter. he wears converse, i always wear these dressy timberlands. my drummer is a self proclaimed hick that wears plaid shirts and trucker hats, but he listens to garage rock and metal, a lot of times he listens to in flames or slipknot. point is, everyone has their own way of dress. me, im bordering on woman lol, my guitarist is somewhere between retro garage rocker and punk, and my drummer is a hillbilly. if you wanna be punk, i have no problem with you, but i do think its overdone. but hey, if you believe in anarchy, you must believe in a free country, and hell, live up to it, let ppl have their opinion
http://www.freew
ebs.com/camargoroadband

[greendaynaz87]

who the hell does this guy think he is? punk rock is a sublah blah. punk is a atitude,a culture.punk rock is simply "punk" atitude(anti-goverment= which doesnt mean no rules) in music (e.g.greendays song "american idiot",nofx franco un-american)punk is not dead! so long as there is a goverment punk,punk rock shall go on !!!..and for ikthiuz sid vicious has been dead a long long time!

[greendaynaz87]

NO MORE PUNK IS/NOT DEAD ARTICLES!

[punktilldeath15]

who the *** do you think you are! this is a bullshit article. this guy's got his head shoved up his ass w/ his own ideas. If i was standing next to this guy and he said this I would punch in the nose. and punk isn't all about peace. For crying out loud there's a song that just says sex in violence in it the whole time. just shut the *** up man. give up your faggy ass rant. all you wanna do is complain. so PISS OFF!

[Chris inman]

wrthwsrtu

[sk8nddestroi]

that is the biggest load of shit i have ever read. you obviously have no knowledge of the scene at all because all of the ideas u have written came from your ass first off punk did originate from thatcher and reagan but also from the realization that government is shit. i dont claim to be anarchist (im using a computer) but i do have chaotic views, if there were a form of government that did not manipulate and control the masses whimsicaly then i would doubt my loathing. but the governments our world knows do nothing but that reap what others sew. secondly punk is not dead as long as there are true punks out there keeping it alive, not punks that pay 60 dollars for pre-fabricated made by upper class christian right wingers but punks that know what it is, no matter how many people there are like you that trash a scene you have no knowledge of there are real punx everyday proving you wrong. punk and punk rock go hand in hand. once agian this is the shittiest article i have ever read written by a knowledgless shitbag quit trashing the scene and PISS OFF

[JJHx1987]

I'm glad the almighty "punk know-it-all" could enlighten me on what punk really is.

I though the punk subculture was around before the Reagan years... Maybe it's just my imagination? Also, most of the bands I listen to that you would call punk don't sing about anything that has to do with Reagan.

"Well, let's face it bud, we need it."
You might, some people don't.

Shock factor applies to every other type of music so you lose on that point.

What are the rules you are talking about? Can you cite them?

Why is it that everytime I read an article about punk the Sex Pistols are mentioned? If you're going to base punk music soley on the Pistols you shouldn't be allowed to post your articles here. I would also like to know how selling-out has to do with anything.

The Hot Topic part seems completely dumb and totally irrelevant.

Your article really sucked. You should dig deeper into the punk/rock scene before you write about it again.

[AC_friggin'_DC]

this article sucks punk and punk rock came about at the same time damn'it the ramones came out and critics called them "punks" because of the way they dress the critics eventually started calling them punk rock and it became a genre and the Sex pistols are not that bad but if it hadn't been for the ramones thousands of bands wouldn't exist

[monkeyspks]

Punk Rock.

When I say punk is dead, I mean the subculture, not the genre. The genre is nothing but a style of music, and no matter how much it is abused, it cannot die.

I like that part. The rest was crap that... was really biased.

[Mr. Clean]

frigginjerk:
i'm not even reading this one. NO MORE PUNK IS DEAD / PUNK ISN'T DEAD ARTICLES!!!

obviously, because if u had u wouldn't have said that

But Punk Rock like it was originally has really faded, BLink-182? Punk? More like pop crap. Unfortunately no new real Punk bands are well known

[SmokinBilly]

Punk will never die. There will always be a shitty goverment, and there will always be assholes ruleing the world. There will always be things to rant about, and there will always be people who thinks the same as the people ranting. Hearing your opinions as music is nothing but awesome.

...but anyway, Im sick and tired of people bringing up everything bad about punk. There are bad parts in every single genre of music.

[piss_off]

punk is dead and it has been for a long time. in fact, i cant remember the last time real punk was booming.

[rpguitardude]

The Sex Pistols.

I really hate to insult your "liek favrit punx rawk bnad", but The Sex Pistols, especially Siddy boy, were not punk. The only reason The Sex Pistols were ever signed was to market pants, that's all. Not very hardcore, are we? The Sex Pistols can more appropriately be described as one of the first sell-out bands.

[rpguitardude]

^ what the **** was that about ? Sid is Punk ! He dressed like one, looked like one and acted like one ! The Sex Pistols were not sellouts ! Selling out is doing things you dont want just for the money ! How can u call The Sex Pistols sell outs if they destroy their guitars, spit at other people and do other bad stuff thats obviusly bad if you only want to make money ? Punk will never Die ! Accept that !

[Maggot penis]

YOU DONT KNOW WHAT ANARCHISM IS DICKFACE AND PUNK COMES OUT OF THE FIFTIES HENCE THE TERM STREET PUNK

[Maggot penis]

AND SEX PISTOLS DID WHAT THEY WANTED

[ThePhenom]

GREAT ARTICLE

[the.iron.maiden]

nice.

[mikecappa]

that do what you want and not care what people say bullshit is all an excuse to sound cool, REAL PUNK THAT HAD A REAL PURPOUSE DIED IN THE 70'S now its all ****in posers who use that shit to pretend or look punk, it was only cool when the pistols did it, and when Kurt Cobain did it with his anti solos and cross dressing stage antics

[mikecappa]

good, real punk died a while ago man drop it, i love thrash metal and grunge and classic rock, they all died a while ago man so LET GO MAN, LIVE IN THE NOW! listen to and like the genre u like but if its dead its dead!!!!!

[in197666]

sexpistols brought together to shit things up not to sell pants u stupid person. without them punk would not have the notoriety that it has today, the english scene would never have taken off and neither would have the american.
hot topic is ok ?so its not ok for the sex pistols to get a record deal and 'sell out' but its fine for a large corporation to market punk to young people
the people and not be 'poseurs'

[Riot_Grrrl]

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, read what punk really is about and see why it can't die. I recommend "The Manifesto" by Greg Graffin. And I love how you only think of two countries when you say it was about either Reagan or Tatcher, it just shows how much you now about worldwide politics related to punk.

[timo1]

well this is quuite stupid as punk died long ago

[fenderdude0071]

PUNKS NOT DEAD god dam it if punk was dead there would be no 1 listening 2 punk music never dies punks also a mind frame if u dont give up the mind frame punks nut f*!@ing dead

[pie_man_25]

let's face it, if punk was basically anti-reagan-ism, then punk is dead, but there are posers everywhere, like KISS (they were a great band, but they are poser),
and pretty much any band aimed towards women. And poser, are basically all that's left of punk (if you would like to learn more about this theory, please pm me)

[maddrumer]

Very good article. I have seen few of the like that argue a case so powerfully. It is time that someone finally understood what has bee true for a long time: punk is dead, Victoria has no secrets, and those who belive the above untrue a nieve sons of *****

[maddrumer]

Anybody who supports total anarchy is an uneducated fool who is leading this nation, and many others down the crapper. Humans are no more than animals, and with no organization, we will soon be batteling for everything we want. If one wants a piece of land, there will be no guidlines set in place to follow in order to get it. You could just kill the person who owns it, and its yours. This are un-deniable truths that have been proven over and over. Do I think we should have strict goverment? No! But instead a set of basic, common sense laws that allow the people to do what they need to survive. If a person kills someone, we kill them back, if someone breakes into my house, i'm going to shoot e'm. The law will not back me, but if everything i have worked for is in danger, family, and friends, not possesions, then it is on, and the bad guy will expirience one heck of a fight, and regret the decision to mess with me.

[Guitargod12345]

Punk is just the mainstream's version of Rock music, like most mainstream genres, it isn't very good.

[DXM]

This article has certainly caused a lot of controversy, and has made a lot of people who call themselves punk quite angry. No, punk is not exactly what it used to be -- but it has evolved, not died.


Now for my take on the various factors that you cite as causes of "the extinction of punk".


1. The Political Cause:

As many people have stated prior to my posting: Reagan's no longer in office, but now we have Bush to contend with. We have a political enemy -- and we are fighting him and his administration. I went to the January 27th war protest in Washington DC, and it was astounding. There is a huge political movement going on that the media is not acknowledging (for obvious reasons; it's not in the best interest of media [read: big business] to publicize this).

No, punk is not equivalent to anarchism; you are certainly right about that. While there are punks who work to create anarchy, there are just as many who do not.


2. Shock Factor:

Every scene has attributes that can be labeled as "shock factor".

True, a lot of (very non-punk) people have integrated aspects of punk fashion into their wardrobes. However, punk is not a fad. It's not a fashion. Simply because studded belts, skull imagery, etc have been integrated into mainstream styles of dress does NOT mean that the punk subculture (or counterculture, if you will) has become the modern American way of life. (Nor have true punks deigned to integrate themselves.) What drives punk is the need for change. Punks see the flaws in our society and, unlike many critics, suggest better alternatives. America is simply not ready to accept these options yet.



3. Rules:

"The thing is folks, punk sells. Punk sells well." (See above; you can sell punk fashion but the attitudes and way of life are not marketable.)

There are varieties of the punk subculture. Different groups can be identified by different characteristics. For example, look at the straight-edge kids. They have very distinct characteristics.

"So, punk had to have guidlines, things that made you punk and not. But the subculture by nature only had aspects that made you punk, not things that didn't make you punk."

If you sell out, you're not punk.

~~~~~

So, that is why punk is not dead.

In response to other points:


The Sex Pistols are not the height of punk; they are not idolized by the punk community. No more needs to be said here.


Hot Topic has been addressed.



"Unfortunately no new real Punk bands are well known"
Uhh... that would be because they're not selling out. I'm familiar with a number of excellent (and extremely undground) punk bands. If you're in the tristate area, check out a New Brunswick show in New Jersey. Those rock.
~~~~~
"besides if ppl dont like punk y do they even bother to complain about it"
Good question. I'd be interested in hearing the author's answer. Personally, I'm defending punk because the responses posted so far have generally been "F*CK YOU PUNK'S NOT DEAD" which, while not wholly unwarrented, is a rather ineffective way of refuting the article. (I'm sure where these people are, it's obvious that punk's not dead and they therefore attribue the author's ignorance of the sub-/counter-culture to stupidity. However, in my town I will admit that the punk scene needs to be actively sought after to be found, and that perhaps in the case of the author of this article, he/she is in the same situation; hence my decision to lose a few minutes of sleep enlightening him/her.)

This leads to a question for the author: what kind of experience do you have with the punk scene? Certainly, there are the posers. They're everywhere. I work across the street from a Hot Topic; I've seen the multitudes. I'm sure you and I will agree: these people are not punk.

Have you been to a basement show? Five bucks will get you in. That's where the punk is alive today.

[I am punk "BF"]

PUNK IS ALIVE> punk will never die. Yes there are some posers but punk will never die. I know and see punks on a daily basis. We are awsome and ALIVE. This is a stupid article because punk is completely alive. People pose as punks because it is so living.